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Last week, some of you may have noticed that the sign-in page for products that use Windows Live ID (like Hotmail) changed. Instead of multiple user tiles and two check boxes per account (one for “Remember me” and one for “Remember my password”), now there is a streamlined page focused on one account and one check box to “Keep me signed in”.
Some of you have posted questions on this blog or in our forums and I wanted to share the thinking behind the change.
The previous sign-in experience was optimized for managing multiple accounts on a single PC. A tile was saved per account, and there was a “Remember me” and “Remember my password” check box. The “Remember me” box kept the tile around, and if you checked both boxes, this allowed you to sign in by clicking on the tile instead of retyping your password each time. This was convenient for shared PCs and for people who juggled lots of accounts.
At the same time, there were problems with the old design.
We’ve also steadily added many features to Hotmail to solve scenarios that previously required juggling multiple accounts. Most notably:
With all these changes, we felt that it was time to give the sign-in experience a facelift.
We streamlined the sign-in page to prioritize one account per device, and simplified the two check boxes into one “keep me signed in” check box. Once you check “Keep me signed in” we’ll keep you signed in with your Windows Live ID until you explicitly sign out. This also has the nice benefit of giving you a much faster page load time, so that getting to your inbox or whatever service you are using is now much faster.
You can see the old sign-in experience next to the new experience below.
We’ve heard a few questions from people who were used to the old design and not sure how best to set things up in the new design. Here’s a quick breakdown of different scenarios and the best options for each.
I don’t remember my password. The most common question we’ve heard is from people who had passwords saved in the tiles and don’t remember their passwords. If you forgot your password, simply reset it here. I don’t want to type my Windows Live ID and password each time. Check “Keep me signed in” the next time you sign in. We will keep you signed in until you explicitly click “sign out.” I personally have multiple accounts that I want to manage. There are lots of reasons why you might have multiple email accounts. Here are a couple of the most common scenarios, with suggested solutions: You have multiple email accounts used for different purposes (for example, personal vs. business). The best solution here is to add other email accounts to your primary Windows Live ID account. This works for Hotmail accounts and for other email accounts too. And you get all the benefits of simple, fast sign-in. You don’t want to use your primary account at websites that send newsletters and other potentially annoying mail. To solve this problem, a few months ago we launched the ability to quickly add and remove “aliases” on your account, so you can quickly add and remove multiple email addresses, all associated with your primary account. Someone else from my family wants to sign in on a shared PC. If this happens only occasionally, just sign out and sign in with a different Windows Live ID. If switching between Windows Live accounts a common activity, consider creating a separate Windows user account for each person who uses the computer. Once you’ve set this up, it’s easy to switch between Windows user accounts–all your login info will be saved and you’ll automatically be signed in (if you choose) when you browse the web. This is also handy for Facebook and many other websites, which also save info for one user at a time.
I don’t remember my password. The most common question we’ve heard is from people who had passwords saved in the tiles and don’t remember their passwords. If you forgot your password, simply reset it here.
I don’t want to type my Windows Live ID and password each time. Check “Keep me signed in” the next time you sign in. We will keep you signed in until you explicitly click “sign out.”
I personally have multiple accounts that I want to manage. There are lots of reasons why you might have multiple email accounts. Here are a couple of the most common scenarios, with suggested solutions:
Someone else from my family wants to sign in on a shared PC. If this happens only occasionally, just sign out and sign in with a different Windows Live ID.
If switching between Windows Live accounts a common activity, consider creating a separate Windows user account for each person who uses the computer. Once you’ve set this up, it’s easy to switch between Windows user accounts–all your login info will be saved and you’ll automatically be signed in (if you choose) when you browse the web. This is also handy for Facebook and many other websites, which also save info for one user at a time.
A few of you have also posted that we should have proactively blogged about this change. That’s good feedback, and we’ll work harder to be transparent about our work in the future. Hopefully the info in this post will help steer you in the right direction to troubleshoot problems and set up your account to work the way you want it to.
Keep the feedback coming.
Thanks,
Eric Doerr Group Program Manager – Windows Live ID
Good move. As one of those users who used to always get the tile, even though I'd opted to log me in automatically, I can tell you it's been working much better since the change. This redesign makes a ton of sense.
@Eric,
Thanks for the explanation.
In the future, I would encourage you to document changes like this (that affect many customers) well in advance.
Regarding the new changes ....
Managing Multiple Accounts feature. I do not use that feature, but (as you could tell from the feedback on WLSC) many of your customers do. I do not think the alternative suggestions you presented really make up for the loss of this feature ... but I'll let those who actively used this feature to provide their feedback as to the adequacy of the changed sign-in page.
Remember Me feature. I actively used this feature. The new Keep me signed-in option is definitely not equivalent. With the old feature, only my email address was remembered. With the new feature (as advertised) one remains signed-in (even after shutting down and restarting the browser). Thus, if a user only wants their email address remembered, uses the "Keep Me Signed-in" option to achieve that function, and then closes the browser when finished with Hotmail (but forgets to sign out), the next person using the browser will have free access to the first person's account. A definite security risk for public computers and computers shared by multiple people.
The problem is that you took away the (less dangerous) feature to remember ones password, and replaced it with a (more dangerous) feature that keeps a user signed-in. If a customer uses the "Keep me signed-in" feature just to regain the lost functionality of having their email address remembered, and that person does not fully understand the potential consequences of remaining signed-in, then that customer could potentially have their account compromised.
Please bring back the function of "Remember Me" that ONLY remembers ones email address and does not keep one signed-in
I agree with Greg that it makes sense, and with you that it's less confusing, but langware has a great point that you really opened the door for a more dangerous problem. People still do check their e-mail in computer labs, libraries, kiosks, and on friend's or family's PCs using a shared user account.
Also - It appears that you've removed the Linked IDs feature from accounts that aren't already using it. One of my mailboxes still has this feature, but it's limited to one linked ID.
•You can add other email accounts to your Hotmail inbox
•You can create additional “aliases” connected to your account,
Why haven't you mentioned Linked Live IDs here? To my mind Linked Live IDs is one of the best features you offer - this would have been a perfect opportunity to talk about it. I'm sure more people would use Linked Live IDs if they knew about it.
As one of those users that used the old functionality on my computer and on family member's computers I want the old "Remember my email address" back. I don't understand how the old functionality could be so confusing that they had to remove it completely. Now I have to type in my email address every time unless I want to stay signed in which I do not want to do. This is a very weak explanation for suddenly removing functionality that is used by a lot of users I know. I don't buy that only 2% used this.
As others have said, by removing the ability to only save your email address and not your password you have made things less safe. Very strange change in my mind (and many other I have talked to about this).
are you kidding? so the few "idiots" that cant work out what "remember my password" means get priority over the rest of us? this change is a JOKE. a terrible terrible TERRIBLE change.
seriously hotmail, and your answers and explantions are so condescending, explaing in the weakest terms why you did this.
seriously, IDIOTSSSSSSSS
please look at all the people who posted on your forums complaining about this.
jeez louise what a huge step BACKWARD.
I am very unhappy with the explanation provided in this blog because I can see that "managing multiple accounts" will be gone forever.
You say that working with aliases is the solution to that and I tried to figure it out.
It is COMPLICATED and I can't get it to work when I login.
I cannot understand why you replaced something very easy and user-friendly with something that is so complicated.
I am afraid that this change will be the end of Windows Live and Hotmail all together for me because MS just imposed the change on me without even thinking about the consequences for my dayly workflow.
And these consequences are unbearable !
Thanks for the blog post - I see the benifits of the changes now. :-) However, three more things need to happen:
1) We need alias alerts! What I mean by that is that we get an alert in WL Messenger 2011, and Windows Live Home updates to show one unread message. This is 100% nessesary to make me and other people use aliases intead of separate Windows Live IDs.
2) You should have mentioned Linked Live IDs!
3) You should be able to change your Windows Live ID!
Keep up the great work Hotmail team!
I can't get my other Hotmail account emails into my normal Hotmail account - when I try to access one using POP in the other, it won't let me and says I haev to link the accounts together.
So much for a simple, fast sign in and one inbox...
My friends and I all have families who share the home PC. Being able to sit down and simply select which account one wanted to use was perfect. If security was ever an issue, one simply would not choose to have password remembered.
Because there allegedly are people who thought "Remember me" was confusing, we all have a valuable service taken away? Because it was unsafe if they didn't know they were supposed to log off at an internet cafe? Yet MS has decided that "keep me signed in" is a safe alternative. For the people that didn't know how to sign out in a public place in the first place? OMG.
Integrate email accounts? Not if we're talking about mom, dad, brother, sister, grandma and whoever all sharing the same computer....... all with their own Hotmail accounts.
To top it all off, MS didn't bother to tell anyone about this change. I get countless Microsoft e-advertising monthly in my inbox. But for something this important, not a word was said, which led so many people frantically trying to figure out what was wrong with THEIR computer! System restores; uninstalls, re-installs. And what about those Windows Live "techs" who kept posting that we should all re-download Windows Live stuff? MS pays these folks? THEY don't even know what's going on.
Please bring back "Remember Me" and the individual choices for all Hotmail account owners who share home PC.s. "Keep me signed in" is a terrible idea.
@ Eric Doerr
You say : "If switching between Windows Live accounts a common activity, consider creating a separate Windows user account for each person who uses the computer."
Are you serious ? You must be kidding !
How can you be so ignorant, user-unfriendly, tactless and arrogant.
It is not the first time that MS takes away features that they made us love:
- Features disappeared just like that between Office 2003 and 2007
- Features also disappeared between Vista and 7
- The latest changes in the user Interface of Live Photogallery suddenly are rediculous (between the last beta and the final version)
- Live Sync has been replaced by Live Mesh (what a catastrophy)
And I could go on with this list.
There has been lots of diagreements, about the above mentioned changes during the beta and RC trajects of the different programs but the answer from MS was always "Sorry it is by design".
That is why I used the words "ignorant, user-unfriendly, tactless and arrogant" above !!!!
On the other hand, features that users ask for already for a long time are never implemented.
One example : a search function in Live Calendar.
You delete features that we like, but you don't add features that we ask for.
In other words :
- You develop what you want us to like ...
- You don't care about what we ask you to develop for us ....
Staying signed-in or linking IDs within hotmail is not the answer for families on one home computer. Please bring back the multi ID screen or at the very least the "remember me" button.
I'm so unbelievably dissapointed in this action. I do understand each word and decision in your blog, but despite that, I'm really pissed off.
At least there should be the choice to keep the login-assistant for the people who really use this feature (also in a safe way).
The suggested solution (to create multiple user accounts for windows on 1 computer) is in my situation inconvenient because of the normal startup (which normally brings me to the desktop) is now interrupted with a login. And I should do so specially because of Hotmail???
For me, being logged in all the time, gives me a very unsafe feeling. I prefer typing in ONLY the password each time. (I know this is a point on which you could have long discussions...)
Furthermore, I would like to keep my work e-mail (which multiple people can access) and my private e-mail (which is strictly private) seperate... Really this is very unconvenient, and your blog post really drives me mad.
So please bring us a good solution!!! Thanks for listening.
"You can add other email accounts to your Hotmail inbox – even accounts from other email services – as long as they support POP aggregation (most do). "
That works not with other hotmail addresses for me. When I try to add my Hotmail adress I get this Message:
"Anscheinend versuchen Sie ein weiteres Hotmail-Konto hinzuzufügen. Testen Sie Ihre Hotmail-Konten werden miteinander verknüpft, damit das Wechseln zwischen den Konten schnell und einfach für Sie ist. " (German)
This means in english:
"It seems you want to add another Hotmail Account. Test the Hotmail-Link feature, it allows you to switch fast beetween your accounts."
Think about that
I don't understand the hostility here... "OMG! CHANGE!! NOOOOOOOO!" Seriously, people?
I sign in and out of 3 different accounts constantly throughout the day (two personal, one work), and I find this no more or less difficult than before.
If anything, I wish that they would allow me to take two Windows Live ID accounts and MERGE them so that one of the addresses becomes an alias address instead of a separate, linked account. I currently use the Linked ID feature, but it's still cumbersome.
But seriously, straight up OUTRAGE over something so trivial? Get over yourselves. One sign-on experience, cross-browser supported, and simple... email, password, option to save. Perfect!
I agree with amktk: bring back the multi ID screen! The change of the sign-in page shows: 1. that you don’t think things true, 2. that you don’t care about you costumers. You write that it only occasionally happens that different people want to sign in on a shared PC. I disagree. I think many people (who use one computer of have different hotmail ID’s) want to have the option to choose between accounts.
The reasons that you give are absurd. Costumer confusion?? If people don’t understand which check-box did what they have to read the message next tot the check-box. As you probable have seen, English is not my natural language but I understood the text next to check-box. If some users get interrupted by the tiles just give them a extra option ‘keep me signed in’.
Please bring back the the old sign in page!!!!
My wife & i both have hotmail accounts, We both had our ids remembered but not our passwords, it was very very convenient to simply click on our id and enter our password, after reading many forums on this subject, there appears to be an awful lot of people like me who are EXTREMELY ANGRY at the blanket removal without any prior warning of this useful feature. A VERY BACKWARD STEP.
Now i'm no computer or software engineer, but surely there must be a way to let the many people who like the multi sign-in feature to use it, and those who don't like it to opt out
@Goodthings2life. It can be considered as a small, trivial change. But when you are used to this feature, and suddenly can't use this function anymore, it is really a huge step backward.
Change is good, but this change isn't. You should for example see all the reactions on other windows forums...
And maybe it is in general good to know that only 5% of unsatisfied customers do complain while the other 95% choose another product/service without giving notice.
I am one of those long-time hotmail users who opposes this latest change. I prefer the multiple id and remember me sign-in page option, and think it should be restored. At least, give users the CHOICE: to remain on the "new" system, or to return to the multiple id/remember me sign-in page format! What is the problem with that?
Am also one of the users who always got the tile, even after opting out for Log me in automatically. I understand the way many of them wanting the old login page back. But wanted to point out this overhaul has been made in so many other service providers, as I haven t seen remember my password option anymore, as I guess that is a browser feature and not the service provider. So if you want them to just remember the username, most of the browsers save them automatically, and if you opt to save the passwords, the browser does so. So in a way, it makes sense that log me in automatically is a great feature, as I just open the pinned Hotmail link in my Win 7 laptop.
Eric... good grief!!!
Who are you trying to kid here? maybe the 0.00001% of idiots you speak of that 'reportedly' dont know what "remember my password" means.
I have no idea what the real reason for your changes are... and i guess we will never know, but to initiate a new design that makes processes harder, more drawn out, and less secure for many many users seems
a little counter productive to me..... no! .. Its Stupid
The PC in my home, 'and i'm sure i'm not the only one', is used by 4 family members... 4 seperate private people that have no wish to "keep signed in" or "link accounts together" but were very happy with the previous system.... which none of us had a problem with by the way.
This Backward step has not only anoyed a lot of users and made thier life harder, its wasted a lot of their time and effort trying to find a remedy to a problem that YOU were responsible for and should have told them about in advance.
For the past week your moderators have been giving rubbish answers and solutions to question raised in the forums.
effectively blaming the user each time.
in short....
Sort your life out and make changes for the better...not the worse.
Put the old system back in opperation.
Peplace the "remember my password" box.
In future.... Dont insult our intelegence with " WE'VE MADE CHANGES FOR THE BETTER" excuses to cover up internal political problems.
Yours with respect
Mr not happy
This is BS! Microsoft has ONE thing that works great,and t the benefit of the user,and you take it away.
Google,here I come!!!
Is it really THAT hard to type the email address when signing in? I agree that this change is a step backwards in usability but it certainly doesn't warrant this kind of outrage.
Wow guys this has been an ugly and unhappy change to the UI.
"If switching between Windows Live accounts a common activity, consider creating a separate Windows user account for each person who uses the computer."
COME ON! THIS IS NOT USER FRIENDLY, AND YOU SHOULD KNOW IT.
The advice of creating a separate user account for each person using Hotmail is pointless, arrogant and NOT user-friendly. Just consider the amount of steps/clicks one person has to do to switch users when with the old UI one can login to Hotmail right from the start and logout in a breeze to allow other users to use the same window. I'm technician and switching users is not a problem for me, but what about my mother, grandma, wife, sons, all of them sharing the same computer? Just ask out there if they will be willing to learn how to switch accounts.
The best approach would be to allow the usage of old UI to those users who doesn't login via smartphones. The UI should detect the OS and show the best fitted UI for that scenario, while allowing the user to set one or the other as default. Please anybody tell me if this have sense or am I crazy.
Are all you people complaining serious???? You have a problem putting in your username and password, really? And for all of the people saying they are going to switch to Gmail, you do realize Gmail doesnt have a multiple account log in right and only have a stay signed in check box, right????
Seriously is it that hard to log out of your account, and someone else log in to their account by.... entering a username and password?
@treize13: for non-IT accustomed people, yes, it is a pain in the a** having to switch accounts. Simple people needs simple solutions. Just click logout at Hotmail and let other choose what profile use to log in. That is really easy to do to users of any level.
Post from Windows Live ID Team in Windows Blog and this blog does not support sign-in with Windows Live ID? Nice! ;-)
I understand your reasons for this change, but her implementation I really do not like it. I use my main Windows Live ID account, in which I added two more (so switching between them). One for testing functions as an internal account for some MS services and the second because reason that Microsoft itself does not consider accounts from the Custom Domains as full Live ID (in some services just they do not work right). So now I must write the account name and password each time when I log in instead of click on profile picture and typ password. Bacause I not know on which account I'm logged on when this is done automatically (in the header is name always the same).
So I look forward to Windows 8, which hopefully will bring some improvements in this matter (fast switching accounts maybe) or true SSO.
Please re-add the ability to remember only the username, for use on laptops and other devices that travel to unsecured locations. With Microsoft's strong stance on security in other areas, your either force us to enter all information or choose a complete insecure option. Now, I must choose to remember nothing for my portable devices.
Wait just a minute here, I've been testing this changed since it was set loose on users unexpectedly. I don't see where the convenience is for a single user to type their full Live Id credentials repeatedly. Who don't want the automatic sign-in. Limiting their choice to either “Keep me sign-in” for one account or retype repeatedly their full credentials is unwanted. Simplicity has become so streamline does not benefit all users. Having said that installing Windows Live ID Sign-in Assistant only for testing purpose. Automatic sign-in for every website it is needed can be tempting, but comes with it's own risk. Even desktop computers can be stolen or hacked into. This changed could be more acceptable if the Sign-in Assistant had the choice to remember email address and not the password.
I peronally can't see why microsoft can't offer the sign in assistant as a seperate download like it used to be in the old days (not so long ago) and then if we chose to have it on our peronal computers then so be it.
I think a simple thing like hotmail is becoming over complicated by all of the other live services which can be confusing to people who aren't interested in all this stuff. Keep it simple Microsoft.
To the people who think some of us are a bit excited and becoming hostile and out of control are themselves misguided.
It's not change that we aren't liking. It's change for no sensible reason and making things worse not better that's getting people upset. Plus it took a week or so for microsoft to tell us what was going on after the majority of us were told by solutions support engineers it was us who had done something to our computers and suggested all sorts of un intalls and re installs and cookies blocking and add ons not set correctly etc etc.
And no it's not difficult to sign in every time someone else wants to access there emails but it's easier to just click and enter a password - and I thought that was what it is all about. "Simplicity"
Any way thats me done!
PS. HAPPY 15th BIRTHDAY HOTMAIL!
I much prefer the new sign-in method. It's more secure. Good work to the WL team.
Microsoft does-
www.windowslivehelp.com/solution.aspx
Under 3. How to obtain Windows Live ID Sign-In Assistant? Under b. Install Windows Live ID Sign-In Assistant standalone.
First download link is for Windows 7 too, I know used it.
I, (like the majority), would like the Remember Me feature back and am annoyed I was not notified or given a choice!
@treize13
For this single user account if it was for email only then more than likely their would not be a complaint. But for every Microsoft site that Live ID sign-in is require for me to use. It does become a pain repeatedly retyping Live ID credentials on everyone of them through-out the day or night.
"To make matters worse, tiles only worked on Internet Explorer"
Did you know about cookies ? I mean, why do you need in first place an external app (sign-in agent) to display two or more accounts
"consider creating a separate Windows user account for each person who uses the computer"
I'm going to take this as a very good joke
"we’ll keep you signed in with your Windows Live ID until you explicitly sign out"
Security risk for those who rent pc's and just close the window
"don’t want to type my Windows Live ID and password each time"
Read well.. people don't want to TYPE.. a button click is very different than "Keep me signed"
Changes are good, but sometimes are bad (unnecessary and not user-friendly), as this thing is
This is a very poor idea. I agree with the many unhappy, and disappointed hotmail users. Removing the old sign in page, where your sign in name, as well as the sign in name for other people using the same computer, was most convenient.
The purposes you set forth seem more like an excuse for steps taken in a backward direction. I would encourage you to restore the sign in screen the way it has been, or at least give your users an option as to which sign in page they want to use.
Have a look at the following Softpedia site :
news.softpedia.com/.../Windows-Live-Hotmail-ID-Sign-in-Experience-Upgraded-210269.shtml
where Eric Doerr explains to the world what a brilliant idea MS had.
It means that we can forget about getting back our beloved multi-ID login screen.
In that case it means the end of my Windows Live participation and this of all my network colleagues. We all start moving towards Google services from next week onwards.
I tout Hotmail and Live Mail on the Financial Blogs I publish. This "New View" is one of the most irritating changes I've experienced with Microsoft (remember Vista?). My clients have e-mails set up through Hotmail which are dedicated to getting info on their accounts. I was able to go to ONE Page and access their mails, easily; nomore...
I realize I can access the multiple accounts on the Windows Live Format (something I've been obliged to do), but Hotmail is so Great! and so simple to use, it's my format of preference (...and I'm hardly alone in this sentiment).
Surely, MSFT could devise a program to separate account access from users of mobile devices from those accessed by us on the "good 'ol" PCs. What?, we should be inconvenienced because someone doesn't know how to use mobile devices efficiently? And I'll offer a disclaimer of sorts: I use mobile as well, but know it's a bit of a tradeoff.
C'mon guys, this is just a "NEW Coke" moment at MSFT. I'd like to see the "Old View", again. Thanks.
This article basically says that the "remember me" box has been permanently removed for security purposes...and instead you have the option to remain signed in. It further suggests that if you have a household of many users using the same computer, there is no longer the convenience of having the sign-in page display all the email addresses of those members of the household. (Some of the members have multiple email accounts as well by the way). It is suggested that you now have to set up multiple users on your computer and log off each time you log into a separate email address if you want to access your live id accounts quickly...so am i to understand that the sign-in assistant is now rendered useless and that you can no longer have the option of viewing all the addresses on one page? So why would some members of the product team be investigating this issue if it was purposely changed and designed to eliminate the option. As the owner of the computer that requires these multiple email addresses to be shown, i liked to have the control to monitor how much disc storage, file folders, etc are on my computer and the control to delete unnecessary files, folders, etc to free up disc space. It sounds to me like Microsoft wants every individual in every household to have their own computer....so much for energy conservation...To set up all these other user accounts just so others could read or write their mail is retarded. i'm very annoyed with this abrupt change and the added inconvenience it has and will cause me and others in my household.
I am also very annoyed that Windows Live could not email us in advance to let us know this change was coming. When Windows LIve Space accounts were closing, i received multiple notifications of this upcoming change...Also when other major changes were being implemented we received emails. I think it would have been respectful if the same consideration was given in this latest incident.
Can i get further clarification that Microsoft has no intention of investigating and correcting this matter further???
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Ugh. Bad move, the old style was way better. Consider this another vote against this change.
@Eric
Thanks for an honest reply, however I also agree with Langware. Also as some have mentioned, a heads up to all users would have been nice, because dio you know how many elderly people don't remember their password because they had checked off to remember it. I'm the techie in the family and have been called numerous times for this.
Re-Langware, I fail to see the more security with the new faeture. I'm really puzzled.
I as many many users wish you would bring it back please.
Thanks
Well, that's some really pitiful excuses. It's the standard line though I've heard over the years, when Microsoft decides they know more of what people want, than the people themselves. I guess some haven't found this info yet since there are many more complaints in other places. Could be they just left and went elsewhere, which is what people that don't like the change should do, instead of putting up with it.
It is really complicated to NOT click remember me, but so SIMPLE to NOT click keep me signed in. Honestly I don't believe anything you said. Its just a standard corporate line.
To the few that think everyone is crazy for complaining, unless you work for Microsoft, I have no idea why the sign in assistant bothered anyone with a brain. Its not like if someone when to another computer and signed in, that all their email addresses would show up. That's not how it worked.
But right, don't allow a option that works for the people that want it, just take it off. I have 7 Live or Hotmail accounts, and the reason is because of the sign in assistant. Now I'm not going to have any, because you took away something that worked. Also, I have to add Hotmail.com or live.com to sign in, and on Gmail or yahoo all that is needed is the user name.
I could change between the accounts easy and fast, and the password wasn't kept. Now I have to type in a complete sign in for each account. That is now faster with Gmail or Yahoo. Not that I like having to do that either, but its better than what hotmail offers now. You have listed no reasons to remove the sign in assistant that makes sense. The keep me signed in thing is much more insecure.
I have no intention in keeping any of my accounts now, including the one's I pay for to keep the ad's out. I'm tired of giving Microsoft money as they remove things that work, because of reasons they keep secret.
I can no longer go between my acounts quickly so I have no use for your "new features".
I forgot to mention in my previous post. If it's suppose to be more secure, why haven't they done the change for Messenger. I can still login to my multiple accounts as before, therefore access my inbox. So I fail to see if you say you are securing one door, but leaving the other one open?
Thank you very much!
This is really a good reform, and so nice to read the clear text (although I have to use a translator from time to time) and see pictures. Keep up the same way, I want more illustrative pictures and videos! =)
@Eric Doerr,
Thank you for providing an explanation for the change. But, quite honestly, I find the expanation so weak that I think there must have been some other reason for the change, and these reasons were created after the fact to try to diffuse customer dissatisfaction.
Customer Confusion? If customers were confused between the difference between "Remember me" and "Remember my password", why not just change the labels to something less confusing, like "Remember my User ID" and "Remember my User ID and Password".
Changing trends in Device Ownership and Consolidation on Primary Account explain why you would want to add the "Keep me signed in" feature, but doesn't explain why you would get rid of the old features. For people who are sole users of their computer, it is great to give them the speed and convenience of remaining signed in without having to retype their user ID and password.
But why take away a feature which is beneficial for people who share a computer (such as a family computer) or for security reasons don't want to remain signed in (like accessing Hotmail from a work computer, and don't want to worry about logging out before someone from their company helpdesk accesses their computer).
Even the work-around suggestion of creating different Windows logins is absurd. With the old Hotmail feature, I could be creating a PowerPoint presentation on a shared family computer. If my wife wanted to check her email, she could just interrupt me, and with a few mouse clicks view her Hotmail email, and let me get back to PowerPoint. Instead, you are suggesting that I close my PowerPoint presentation, log out completely, and then she log in, check her email, and then log out, then I log back in, and then reopen my PowerPoint presentation. Hardly simpler, faster, or less confusing.
To me, it seems the right answer, to provide the flexibility to meet the needs of the most Homail users is to give your customers a choice. When they first open the Hotmail sign-in page they are given the option of three check boxes:
- Remember my user ID
- Keep me signed in
- Do not save my information. (Select this for public computers)
If the user selects "Remember my user ID", they are then given the option to "Also remember my password".
This gives the people who want to remain signed in the ability to remain signed in. And the people who don't want to remain signed in and don't want to have to retype their user ID everytime, will get their ID remembered. And the people who want the sign-in tiles to switch between multiple accounts can just save multiple IDs. And the people who don't want anything remembered can select the choice to ensure their information is not saved.
Let's face it, as computer users, we expect Microsoft to provide us with flexibility and configurability. If we wanted some corporation to dictate to us how to do things, we would own Apples.
good call.. nice to easily switch between windows sites without always getting the tiles
Changes struck me badly :) I have to manage two different accounts in two different browsers. But it could be more secure in some cases I can imagine at work and home. Please MS people make all MS sites browser agnostic, i.e. rewards.xbox.com drives Chrome to a error
400 Bad request
Your browser sent an invalid request
I agree with langware. Bring back the option to remember the email adress. I refuse to use the option to remember email and password as this creates a MAJOR security hole. So now I'm forced to type my email and password each time: quite annoying. Lowering security for more usability is always a bad choice.
Thanks for all the feedback today on this. I really appreciate you all taking the time to share your thoughts on this subject. I recognize that some of you are frustrated with the change and I am truly sorry for that. I can also assure you that there is no secret hidden agenda :-) - we’re just doing our best to build stuff to solve your problems and make the products better and faster.
No matter how many customers we delight (thanks for those of you who posted), when we miss the mark with even one person I do want to understand why, and I (and the rest of the team) do take the feedback to heart and we will work hard to do better.
Looking at the posts I’d like to take a couple of the common themes and comment briefly.
Several folks have commented on the suddenness of the change and the lack of notice. There was also some confusion in the first few days after the change on the support forums. Please don’t blame the hardworking folks who help answers questions on the forums, we should have done a better job equipping them to help. This is good feedback. And we will just do better here.
There were some questions about adding accounts vs. linked IDs. For individuals who personally juggle multiple accounts I suggested adding an email account in Hotmail. In some cases this will set up “POP aggregation” and in other cases this will encourage you to link IDs. If you are having issues getting this to work please let me know and we’ll investigate. This suggestion is, of course, good for one person with multiple accounts and isn’t appropriate for a family of people each with one account of their own who share a computer - you don't want to merge your email accounts for different people.
A few others have shared feedback about missing the ability to just have “remember me” but who don't want to “keep me signed in” for security, and some miss the ability to manage multiple accounts like on a family PC. I do encourage folks who haven’t tried to set up multiple Windows accounts to give it a shot – it’s actually a great solution for many families – especially as more and more apps and services get deeply connected with the internet and begin to deeply personalize the PC and assume that one user primarily uses each account. For the rest - the feedback is good and we’ll think hard about this and see if there is anything we can do to help.
I’ll respond separately with some comments on individual posts, but wanted to get a quick response out on the thematic stuff.
-Eric
What system does this site use?
I tried to sign in with live ID, and the original sign up, it failed on both. I then tried password recovery and that also failed. (I waited a long time, no email arrived. So I guess that subsystem failed, as did the upload an avatar system.)
Fortunately my live ID still works on MSDN.
So I've signed up again, to post this.
I haven't tested the new interface. (I normally would but my time got eaten by this site's sign on.) My initial thoughts are:
1) Changing things that a lot of people have become used to can cost them a lot of time. (I remember the Excel interface changed at one stage. A simply stopped doing some things I'd done before, and used other tools. Then we have Office 2007 and the new interface. Although I own it I've moved to writing HTML and coding things up.)
2) There are different audiences. Including (1) those who've used computers for years and have the commands hard wired into their fingers. Including (2) a subset of relative newcomers who couldn't handle the old interfaces. Including (3) mobile device users, which are just another story, they just need different interfaces even when talking to the same people who use full computers.
3) It seems the old hands sometimes get dumped when a shiny new interface designer, who hasn't researched the history, comes along and gets political power. People who used to be your friends can turn on you, to varying degrees.
4) If we pay for something and it kicks us in the teeth we're going to get mad! Read MSDN subscribers etc. (Be careful.)
5) Maybe it's worth looking at the, admittedly unpleasant, option of alternate interfaces. On the web there's a number of ways that can be stored in a browser, and there's options on the server too I imagine. Give it a thought please.
Thanks for your response.
I especially appreciate your taking ownership for the fact that the update was not documented ahead of time, and that the WLSC moderators were not properly equipped with the necessary tools/information to help customers who were confused by the undocumented change.
I think your customers have made it clear that (from a security perspective) the new "keep me signed in" feature is not equivalent to the old "remember me" .... and from a security perspective I hope your would agree.
Regarding your suggestion for customers to set up multiple Windows accounts, please let me remind you that many of your customers are not experienced in administrating their computers. In addition, many customers have older hardware and are running older versions of Windows. For those customers, setting up multiple accounts and then switching between them is not an easy/comfortable/quick task.
Also, you are assuming that "one user primarily uses each account". That might be true for some customers, but other customers are sharing one computer among many family members.
Please do not ignore your "low tech" customers. You stated: "we’re just doing our best to build stuff to solve your problems and make the products better and faster". Your customers are telling you that the "remember me" and manage manage multiple accounts functions (previously available) did indeed solve their problems and made Hotmail better. Please listen to your customers and restore these features.
I have a problem where I have my main @live account, but my university also uses live@edu which uses the Outlook Web App mailbox. As my main @live account doesn't support the Outlook Web App mailbox I have to completely sign out and switch accounts every time. Are there any plans to fix this annoyance?
Liked the new view. Not sure what langware is complaining about. Have you used Facebook/ GMail? I can finally bookmark hotmail.com and see inbox directly!
Sorry Eric this change in my opinion and the vast majority of users as seen by the negative feedback is totally ridiculous
It seems it was changed for a very small minority of of idiots
As you can see with it seems to be to me 95% of users replying to this blog think it a backwards step
Will it just be another typical ms change that nobdy likes but in ms arrogance wont fix
Its about time ms developed some decent client relations with the everyday non computer geek user
@Doerr, there are many things I agree but I have a question, I use different email for different purposes, like for bank, credit card company, sensitive matter and few people who I don't want to expose to the list of friends i.e. just family members for sharing photos and messages. Other email address for cases where I won't care too much about the privacy and security concern. In that case, I don't want to link every email IDs to a single one (for security concern) and also the cloud is never 100% secure, can be hacked anytime as we have seen many examples right now. So, I wonder if linking all kinds of email compromise the privacy and the security of the person lets say email used for facebook and email used for more sensitive matters like financial. If the security of facebook is compromised, I believe the the security of email for financial matter is also compromised since its cloud. So, I see far security concern on linking multiple emails despite their easy use and interconnection. In that case, I never would link multiple emails to a single one, at least not all of my email will be compromised because of a single one. So, is compromising the security isn't that important?
Aslo, I would not like to type @hotmail after my email ID everytime, that is not user friendly. Users want a quick come and go without many hassales. I believe windows phone is all about that. But again, that doesn't seem right. Does microsoft has any plans on that?
Eric, it's good that someone from the Windows Live ID designers finally clued the users in on this change, even if it IS in this obscure forum.
I don't know about the 2% figure, ("We knew from our telemetry that fewer than 2% of users were using the tiles") but I know you use different terminology than we do. Are tiles the same as "icons"? I can't imagine accidentally setting up anything like these icons at an internet cafe or a friend's house, do people really do that by accident, seems careless.
Some of us use email like we do running water, and aren't interested in learning all the ins and outs of using Windows LIve. I have studiously ignored all the bombardment about Windows Live during the past few years. It was quite annoying. I have several hotmail accounts to serve my different purposes (online shopping, banking, personal) and HAD the interface to allow me to see the accounts at a glance and log in without having to always enter the Id and password. Lately hotmail had started asking me periodically to enter my passwords. This was a small p.i.t.a, but I figured it would ensure my never forgetting one. (Maybe my frequent use of ccleaner is to blame for having to enter a password.)
I find your attitude astonishing. I waited 24 hours before posting this, not wanting to rant, but I'm still mighty annoyed with Microsoft. I don't have time for this email account project right now! Why didn't they provide a seamless transition for us, or at least some step by step guide for us to get back some of the functionality as you describe -- if it really is possible -- without learning your terminology and without having to learn a lot of Windows Live terminology? Well, it is too late for the seamless, there already is a huge honking rip across our email interfaces.
I am not generally low tech or challenged about anything here. But I do find the whole Windows Live hoopla boring. I just wanted to continue to use my hotmail email addresses with a convenient log-in screen. If hotmail gets faster, great, but it won't make up for my losing the convenience of logging in quickly at home.
If I am too simple a life form for Microsoft to respect, then it could be a good time switch everything to Gmail. 2% is not much market share, but probably it will contribute to the erosion of Microsoft's browser market share when there no longer is any incentive to stay with IE.
if security is the concern why hotmail still doesn't have https feature which google has because of security concern?
Having read through all the comments I find it hard to believe that ...
We knew from our telemetry that fewer than 2% of users were using the tiles.
I've only seen 3 or 4 comments out of 57 who like the new change. So that's closer to 95% of people reading this blog who were using the tiles.
WE WANT THE 'REMEMBER ME' FEATURE BACK FOR MULTIPLE SIGN-INS!!!!
I'm also not quite sure what you meant by
100% of our users were interrupted by them in the old design.
I certainly was never 'interrupted' by the tiles/icons.
I was just having a quick look at the 15th anniversary of Hotmail and thinking that I've been a member (with the same hotmail address) since last century! And this is the first time I've been so frustrated with a change that I've joined and posted on a blog, looked for answers and posted questions in a forum, and otherwise complained, complained, and complained some more!
We want the 'remember me' feature back!
(Or at least something to replace the feature so that we can have multiple sign-ins in a 3 member household with extended family occassionally visiting and wanting to check their hotmail!)
The whole family wants Microsoft to put back the features that worked perfectly. We deserve a choice. All of us. We either use the "remember me" features or we don't. Simple. What you've done now is slow us down. And who's the genius that decided all of us with Hotmail accounts have to keep typing @hotmail.com AT the HOTMAIL SIGN-IN PAGE????????
Seems to me that most people have an email program through their ISP. We do. But we don't use it and have always preferred Hotmail, even though there were always ads displayed. Know why? Because it was easier and faster than having to type everything out every damn time! Give us our choices back!
I see comments, but no mechanism to add a comment?
It's not obvious that signing in is required to comment, and when I do sign in, the site loses context and dumps me in the middle of nowhere. I have to walk back to what I was trying to comment on; that suuuucks.
Thank you for not breaking back-navigation; it was the only way to get back here! Now on to what I wanted to say about this article, after getting side-tracked with the site's mechanics...
User accounts in Windows are still broken, for those outside corporate IT with particular requirements. It is still not possible to prevent new accounts starting with MS defaults, such as "hide file name extensions", shell folders located in C:, etc.
Until that is fixed, I consider multiple/new user accounts in Windows to be unfit for use. What I'm waiting for, is a way to interactively (i.e. via a normal GUI, not domain-based Group Policy, scripting etc.) set up the new user account profile so it doesn't suck. Then (and only then) would I create new user accounts as a solution to limitations elsewhere.
Articles that describe copying a well-setup profile over the new account prototype don't work; because these copies are invariably incomplete (e.g. "works for everything except the registry", etc.)
Wonderful! It's like being back in kindergarten; a few users have trouble getting to grips with the rules so they "simplify it" for everyone. The lowest denominator wins, once again!
FIX IT!, GUYS
Hmmm...
Still I don't get it.
How can I login with my personal Hotmail account and enjoy the Live ID websites, that I have registered with my personal Hotmail account, and the other Live ID websites, that I have regsitered with my work LiveID-enabled e-mail address.
For example, I'm browsing Microsoft Technet with my work Live-ID enabled e-mail (to get the corporate downloads), and connect to Hotmail with my Hotmail e-mail.
Will I need to disconnect reconnect and type everything in everytime?
Streamline? Consolidation? I am not building a car nor do I want a loan. I just want to sign in without having to type my user name and so does the missus. Streamlining suggests improving, making quicker and more efficient. Can you seriously say that is what has happened here? Read the comments and you will see that virtually nobody agrees with you. This many people can't be wrong.
This blog has made it clear to me . I am deleting IE as soon as I have finished writing this. I only used it because of the sign-in assistant which is not available in Chrome etc. IE9 is embarrassingly slow at start-up and now this crap! This is truly beyond contempt, as is the fact that some idiot has been telling us to re-install this or disable that add-on for about a week. The cherry on top I suppose. I am going to start saving for a Mac!
Frankly, if you can't work out the difference between the check-boxes, you probably shouldn't be using a computer,or for that matter, electricity because the slivvers from your chin my cause a nasty shock and stain the keyboard. Taxi for IE9!
The answers given by Eric Doerr so far
- emphasize the problem that we have, they do not give a solution to our problem.
- make it very clear that MS will again (as usual) persist in her obstinacy and arrogance
- that we will have to live with what has been decided
Bring back the remember me feature for multiple sign-ins!! seriously. It was easy to use and kept me coming back to hotmail.
SMH the outrage over this is silly!
@ treize13: why do you think the outrage is silly? Isn’t it ridicolous that Microsoft change a perfect working feature? Can’t we indicate that this change is strange, unnecessary and users unfriendly? So because it’s the (big and powerful) Microsoft we all have to shut up and simply adopt their decision?? This change suck big time and they have to change it back.
So you just dumbed it down, call it "simplifying" and tell your users to live with it and shut up. I don't see how the "simplified" version is better than the one which allowed multiple sign ins with any ID the user wanted.
Please undo this. As a user that regularry uses as many as 4 live id's having it save all the usernames but not the passwords made it easier to switch between ID'S. Log out of one click the button for the other type the password. I am acutally waiting for the MIcrosoft Connect Team to implement this feature so I dont have to contaantly retype the email addresses. Dislike.
@ treize13
I am happy for you if you don't miss the feature.
But please stay out of here with remarks if YOU do not understand why WE miss it a lot !!!!
Very poorly handled. The tech support people don't understand what has happened and are still telling users to download and install the Windows Live Sign-In Assistant to fix the problem. This move was a mistake and is truly customer disservice. After many, many years with Hotmail, I am very strongly considering moving my entire family to gmail. In the meantime, my fix was to simply use my biometric device to memorize the log-in info.
Very poorly done.
I agree with an earlier post that we desperately need "remember me" function on the hotmail sign-in page. I HATE, HATE, HATE having to re-type my entire email address every time I want to check my emails. I access my email at a work and sometimes public computer and I do NOT want it to save my password AND email address. So, I need to have a way to allow the browser to retain my email address. Remember, even "hotmail.com" is a long string to re-type each time. So, imagine how painful this is for people like me who have a large name/email address. Please fix this ASAP. Thanks.
I didn't like this at all. Why change something that worked perfectly? If you love it so much, why don't you make it an option so we who doesn't live it can use the old login? Why do you have to make it so complicated? Come on guys me and many others wants the old login, please change it back :(
I didn't like this at all. Why change something that worked perfectly? If you love it so much, why don't you make it an option so we who doesn't love it can use the old login? Why do you have to make it so complicated? Come on guys me and many others wants the old login, please change it back :(
The removal of the remember me box is really irritating and the explanation that it improves security does not stack up as the keep signed in alternative is less secure . My online bank remembers me , my account is then protected by password. Why can't MS do the same? Answer - you can because you used to and much more convenient it was too.
Please bring it back or I'm off.
Windows Live - the ugly stepchild of the Windows family, never user-frendly and hardly ever listens to feedback.
I don't see any problem with that. I use two accounts which are linked and I alternate between them easily. These people are overreacting.
Ridiculous. The one feature that set Hotmail apart from all the rest. The only reason I kept paying for a msn.com email account. The suggested alternatives just don't compare with the multiple account sign-in now lost forever.
@ treize13 and Leoberto José Preuss Jr.
Good for you 2 that you don't have a problem with the changes, but as you can see 95% of us do!
Leoberto - most of aren't complaining about logging into LINKED accounts. I'll assume that you are the only one logging into hotmail on your computer, on a regular basis anyways. Our problem is MULTIPLE hotmail users on ONE computer who want their addresses saved and displayed!
This is to KNIGHTSKY (about 30 posts from beginning)
I looked at your post last night, wasn't sure what you were talking about but wanted to investigate the site you suggested ..
I was able to get the site last night but today it's disappeared. (Maybe Hotmail/MS removed it?) It seemed like you were suggesting that there was a way to maybe get around this 'fix' that Hotmail has implemented - which certainly appealed to me!
So, I'm curious what it was that you were trying to say/show and if you had any other suggestions?
@shannonkook. Could be Microsoft has remove information about the sign in assistant. I haven't checked but since they are the last word and everyone has to obey, it wouldn't surprise me. Maybe they can search the internet and find the program and take it off everywhere. Might even remove if off people's computers !
Anyway, what people should do is close accounts and say why. That is the only think they really look at. IE9 has things that bother a lot of people, like moving the favorite tab to the right side. It seems like once they make the law there is no going back. Plus I'm sure they know most will keep it and not use something else.
But I'm not going to use their email much longer, for just the point of it. I don't like having to type Hotmail or Live.com everytime. I wasn't the one that decided to let people have the same user name on both, so they have to sign in with the complete address. Its much faster with Gmail or Yahoo. So, my 7 email accounts will soon be closed out and no more paying for Hotmail plus.
Do you know that on top of all that misery, the service for managing linked IDs has been out of order for several days (weeks?) by now.
MS really made a complete mess of their 15th anniversary : congratulations
@Eric:
Regarding your statement: "We knew from our telemetry that fewer than 2% of users were using the tiles, but 100% of our users were interrupted by them in the old design."
With over 300 million Hotmail customers, 2% of your customer base is 3 MILLION people. You deliberately removed tiles (managing multiple accounts on the Sign-on page) .... and thus knowingly impacted 3 MILLION customers. That may only be a small percentage of your customers, but (in absolute size), it is a very large number of customers to deliberately impact!!!
If other customers were interrupted by the old design (tiles), then why not make tiles an option? Then, those who want to use it can do so, while others who are impacted by it can disable the option.
Sorry, my math is a bit off ... 2% of Hotmail's customers is 6 million people .... deliberately impacted by this change!
@ ShannonKonk
Yes, I see the page is unavailable; it’s the correct link that was provided by Windows Live support in a thread I was participating in recently. The page included links to both Windows Live Essentials (Messenger is required to download to get Windows Live ID Sign-In Assistant) and standalone download for the Sign-In Assistant.
I’m the neighborhood troubleshooter in my neck of woods for all things computer. I’ve been studying whether (during the time theses new changes caught everyone off guard) at that time installing Messenger (installing a program that is not wanted just to gain simpler sign-in experience for web base email, was pathetic); didn’t work well had its own issue(s). That’s why shortly after becoming aware of I tested the standalone Sign-In Assistant it, it was working the last time I was using it, using different computer right now.
Eric Doerr: "We knew from our telemetry that fewer than 2% of users were using the tiles, but 100% of our users were interrupted by them in the old design." 1. I don't need statistics (=worthless) of a defect telemetry (whatever that is) to understand that more than 2% users WANT the OLD login BACK. 2. Why do you keep lying and say 100% (all) users were interrupted by the tiles in the old login? Many people WANTS THE OLD LOGIN BACK, LIKE ME. 3. You are not funny and I hope all of this this is a joke, please end it now. Please give our old login back!!!!
Eric Doerr: "We knew from our telemetry that fewer than 2% of users were using the tiles, but 100% of our users were interrupted by them in the old design." 1. I don't need statistics (=worthless) of a defect telemetry (whatever that is) to understand that more than 2% users WANT the OLD login BACK. 2. Why do you keep lying and say 100% (all) users were interrupted by the tiles in the old login? Many people WANTS THE OLD LOGIN BACK, LIKE ME. 3. You are not funny and I hope all of this this is a joke, please end it now. Please give our old login back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My household. One computer. Three distinct accounts.
Now instead of pushing the password and away we go, Now were back to manual logons.
What is next, DOS again?
If you single users want to stay logged on, just use Messengers "sign me in automatically" option for that.
@ Nick Dandy
This single user does not need Messenger to “sign me in automatically” I can do that by tick “Keep me signed in" on the Live ID sign in page. Besides installing Messenger also includes my Live ID credentials + one more stored on the computer, not too thrill with it, even if I understand the why.
On the sign in page my preference will always be not to saved my password, just my user name (email address).
I can be very brief about this decline :
It means the end of my "Windows Live" life !!
Bring back the old log in.
Surely if people do not like the old log in, they can disable the live ID sign control in add-ons?
So we now have to manually sign in. you know, i've had a think about this, WL may be on to something, i decided to remove the starter motor from my car, i now have to manually crank the engine to start it just like the old days, it's so much fun, i have also removed the starter motor from my wifes car, without telling her, she loves me so much more now,
PLEASE bring back the multiple sign-in page, think about all the poor one finger typists in the family who have to keep filling in their e-mail address,
COME ON DO THE RIGHT THING, YOU KNOW YOU WANT TO REALLY.
MS provides us with extremely nice features and makes us love them.
Once we can't live without the features anymore, they take them away, and they hope that not too many people will leave.
After a couple of years, MS brings the features back again as if they were unique in history, and they hope that more people (than those they lost previously) will join due to this false new featues.
This has to be stopped !
My first ever comment on something that Microsoft have changed and I think that tells you how frustrating this change is,
You really need to listen to your users as posted above.
People don't like the change. They would prefer if it was changed back to the way it was.
It worked ! Why try to fix something that worked .
I never had a problem. my kids never had a problem, but hey you're telling me I had a problem so i must have.
This is like cosmetic surgery on good looking people... a waste of time and after all the effort , it just doesn't look right.
you really need to pause , seriously listen to your users who are telling you that you are now causing the problem, not fixing it. and most important be BIG enough to realise that you got this so wrong.
Are you ignoring us who wants the multiple sign-in back? Please bring it back, or at least make it optional. Us who loves the old one can use the old one (multiple emails saved on the sign-in page), and those who wants the new one can use the new one. Please please?
I am truly disappointed in this. Please let us have the old sign-in back I really miss it, it was like the main reason for me use hotmail.
i am one of those people that left a comment earlier, yet i have yet to hear you acknowledge one of the issues i raised. You reiterated in your last reply that people should really try and give the setting-up-multiple-users-option-on their computer a shot...this totally angers me. AGAIN---as a the OWNER/ADMINISTRATOR of the only computer in our household of 6, who has relied on the multiple email address sign-in page, you are missing a major point here! As the owner of the computer, i had the control and option to do a clean-up of unnecessary files and folders on my computer and to monitor my available disc space. i know you can adjust the security settings so that multiple users cannot save/read/or write files, etc but i like the members of my household to have the freedom to download files, their pictures, etc. What you are saying is that I would have to monitor all these separate user locations on my computer from now on...to "clean up and remove unnecessary files and free up disc space." So instead of me monitoring one location, i am forced to go searching through all the other user accounts. Again, it sounds to me that Microsoft is deterring multiple users from sharing a computer and encouraging users to invest in their own computer...definitely not a energy-conserving attitude. If you think that this change is to simplify things and make things easier, you are sadly mistaken.
HI,
I like the
Windows Live essentials Tools Developer options and updates
for Photo Gallery Movie Maker Live Mail ...etc
with new features.
There is one dread with update for Live Essentials
is how the Windows Paths
are redone post install.
Here is the feature request and hope that you can change Post install steps:
Could you take the exisitng path and append to
the %PATH% after or at end
of the %PATH% not at beginning or before
%windir%\System32;%windir%;
The current %PATH% modification slows the system start up
and prevents some other paths form operating correctly.
Thank you for your attention to this,
Martin
Looking at this from the Windows Live point of view, why was this REALLY done? Reasons given above:
1)Customer confusion about the tiles.
2)Trend, to having one user per device.
3) Increasing use of one primary account.
Number one is mis-named. Was anyone really confused about the tiles? This one is really a security concern.
Number two is true, but the user SHOULD be able to choose whether the sign in assistant is there or not. Could they? Is this an un-bundling problem?
Number three may be true, but it is a fact that Windows Live wants it to be true and has introduced features to make it be true. So it is decreed that users will use only ONE primary account. People using the same computer will have to make adjustments.
These are the concerns being ignored:
Privacy: Family members want to use the same device for email; an individual user may not want email accounts linked because of privacy concerns and to maintain absolute separateness.
Utility: Distrust of the functionality and dependability of Windows Live software in maintaining the linked accounts.
Principle: Ease of login should not require the user to remain logged in. That is the tail wagging the dog.
Windows Live ignores these concerns and changes features without regard to any customers who aren't confused, have more than one user per device, or still use multiple accounts due to personal preference.
There is no detailed and upfront information on exactly how these linked account and alias features work, as far as reversibility. Users may want to try it out without having things be permanently done. Is this possible? I see users complaining of problems in these areas, on the forums. Problems both in linking and un-linking.
Overall, I can see that the developers did what was easiest for them to do, the simplest solution is to ignore all the concerns above, and just disable a feature causing complaints by some users. If there really were all those complaints about it getting in the way, why choose between groups of users? Just fix the problem by making it optional. This action is another version of the forum help "cut and paste" way of helping. Mindless.
You made changes to the Sign-on page that (by your own admission) affected over 6 million customers.
You ended the above blog post with this: "Keep the feedback coming."
Your customers did just that ... over 100 comments on this blog, with the overwhelming majority of those comments asking you to admit your mistake and restore features removed from the Sign-on page (i.e, management of multiple accounts and "remember me") ... or make those features optional so the 6 million users can opt to use then.
What are you going to do with respect to the feedback you've received .... ignore it or take action? Please do not take an adversarial position with respect to your customers. We are taking you at your word .... that you want feedback. Please act on the feedback we are providing.
After 15 years in operation, Hotmail now sees it fit to go backwards. Suggesting that: “WE'VE MADE CHANGES FOR THE BETTER" certainly adds insult to injury! Is your strategy here, to insult our intelligence? These excuses ONLY assist the Neanderthals, who evidently are incapable (whilst using public access facilities), of making the distinction between “remember my password” “remember my e-mail address” “remember me” and/or “managing multiple accounts.”
Isn’t it ironic, that you would switch from a simple straightforward user friendly system, to a more convoluted method, to satisfy the nimble minded idiots, who have difficulty in deciphering their ass from their elbow?
Where is the thinking that: “keep me signed in” is a prudent alternative? My suggestion to Hotmail Admin, would simply be: As you are unable to give a reasonable explanation as to why you opted on reversing the user-friendly process; would it not be sensible to give everyone the option to choose what their preferred system of choice should be? In so doing, you will be able to still satisfy the half-wits who presumably haven’t yet realized the use of their disposable thumbs!
Your prompt attention, will be greatly appreciated...............
I feel very disappointed that first the Windows Live Solution Center gave people the run around and possible resolves when they knew this had been implemented and there was no fix, I personally spent everyday since this started attempting to figure a solution out!!! I am a very disabled individual who spends a lot of time on a computer, and the features you discontinued, the multiple user windows which saved those email addresss and passwords on my computer were invaluable to me beyond your comprehension. I do not understand the reason you cannot have those features for stay at home individuals like me, enabled, and those for others who enjoy their privacy the new version or something to that effect. Also Microsoft could have "warned" us as to what was coming!!!!!!!!! Please address this issue. Thank you.
Someone needs to carefully explain the logic that taking away OPTIONS from users is a good thing. So, some people didn't like the tiles...some people did. And no...100% of people were NOT interrupted by it.) Simple....a SMART company would simply let the user decide which they wanted to do.
Though I guess I can delete Windows Live Sign In Helper now. It is useless...just like Windows Live Mall 2011 that STILL hasn't fixed the Sent Mail bug that doesn't show both the recipient and subject in 2 line mode. At least with THAT we had the choice of going back to the old one.
Thanks Microsoft! You sure degraded Windows Live in 2011!
Do we as users have ANY effect on the products and services coming from Windows Live? The Sign in Assistant remembered multiple live accounts, it allowed saving only email addresses, it allowed signing in with one click even if cookies were deleted because it was an ActiveX control. The dumbed down new experiences removes all that and leaves poor users with a checkbox to save the password like other services like Gmail, Yahoo mail offer. Why take a step back? Just because grannies and moms were getting confused? This is a very good example of Microsoft not listening to users and all feedback falling on deaf ears. If you care about your existing user base, please restore the old sign in experience as soon as possible.
Like many have already said, Microsoft is making it very hard for us to stick with Windows Live services. Few more tricks like this pulled on us that take features away and we will have to migrate to other competing services.
I have changed the MS-update settings on all our computers :
From : Install updates automatically.
To : Check for updates but let me choose whethe to download and install them.
I did that because I want to avoid as much as possible that MS is pushing updates automatically on us that deprives us from beloved features.
IE8 with its' user-friendly user interface was replaced by the naked IE9 user interface which is missing precious IE8 features.
The Live Photo Gallery got a redesign of the user-interface between version 2010beta and 2010Final that is a pita.
The fast and clean Live Sync was replaced by the slow Live Mesh which is a resource hog with the speed of an overaged turtle.
I fully agree with Hedwig :
MS does not listen anymore to users
It becomes hard to stick with MS because there are no more feature advantages over competition anymore.
I gorgot to mention in my previous post that MS should change the name
"MS or Windows Update"
into
"MS or Windows Downgrade"
That would much better indicate what we can expect.
I find this change a nuisance. We should be given a screen offering a choice between the two alternative methods of logging in. I often use my boyfriend's computer and it is annoying to have to sign him out completely and then for me to have to put in both my address and password. On my own computer I preferred to put in my password each time as a way of remembering it. Now I have to sign in both my email address and password. This is just a waste of time and I am fed up with these so called "improvements" being wished on us without consultation. Susan.
I agree with most of the people that "remember me" was an option which should have been there along with this new function "keep me signed in". But I really dont understand why there is such an outrage over this issue. Although I dont use Gmail or any other mail service except hotmail but I checked there sites and found that none of the sites have "remember me" or the like option available. So why there is so much outrage over this. I agree that you should communicate your feedback to MS and I also favour your demand to bring back the remember me option although I have never used that option personally.
If anybody has problem in remembering ID or password on typing them each and every time, they should use any good Password Manager for that matter. Most of them are available free.
@zwanzer: why are you saying that U would be transferring to gmail when even gmail does not have that kind of facility.
@ trulyindian
The login screen with multiple ID's that we had was an enormeous advantage over GMail and others.
Instead of keeping this advantage, MS decided to align to the others and to obsolete the advantage as well.
This means that we can as well go to the competition.
And we will do so because we feel betrayed by MS.
Why? Gosh why did you do this... not everyone has their own computer =( I kindly kindly ask you to put the multiple sign-in feature back to the email login page please =( Why? Please please bring it back it is a very nice, unique and useful feature for many of us. Please.
So you're saying "you should like and love this change, even if you hate it" ? What about us who hates it? We who wants the old login back? I hope you listen to us who doesn't like your changes, if you like it then that's fine... BUT make it OPTIONAL alright? So EVERYONE of your users gets happy. You would never get sucess without your customers... so don't remove the features from your products. It's a shame if you don't return it and only do what YOU prefer YOURSELF. Or those who wants the feature removed... but why not make it OPTIONAL so people who wants new login gets that, and us who wants OLD login can use the old login again. Isn't it selfish and greedy to make a everyday product with a feature lose features just because YOU and SOMEONE ELSE likes it? Just because YOU have your own smartphone or just because YOU have your own compluter DOESN'T mean EVERYONE ELSE has it, and it DOESN'T mean you can try to encourage people to BUY MORE COMPUTERS OR BUY MORE SMARTPHONES SO YOU CAN EARN MORE MONEY. Because NOT EVERYONE can AFFORD IT. Sure you always have those who supports you and supports this change no matter what, with their arguments. What's next, paying for your email service? I don't want to be rude or anything I just feel we deserve that feature back, YOU DON'T HAVE TO MAKE MONEY OFF EVERYTHING Microsoft. You can afford to return it, you have BILLIONS OF DOLLARS, MOST PEOPLE DON'T EVEN HAVE 1 THOUSAND AND CAN'T EVEN AFFORD TO PAY THEIR BILLS. Please start to CARE about people rather than ENCOURAGING THEM TO SPEND MORE MONEY, NOT EVERYONE HAVE MUCH MONEY.
So you're saying "you should like and love this change, even if you hate it" ? What about us who hates it? We who wants the old login back? I hope you listen to us who doesn't like your changes, if you like it then that's fine... BUT make it OPTIONAL alright? So EVERYONE of your users gets happy. You would never get sucess without your customers... so don't remove the features from your products. It's a shame if you don't return it and only do what YOU prefer YOURSELF. Or those who wants the feature removed... but why not make it OPTIONAL so people who wants new login gets that, and us who wants OLD login can use the old login again. Isn't it selfish and greedy to make a everyday product with a feature lose features just because YOU and SOMEONE ELSE likes it? Just because YOU have your own smartphone or just because YOU have your own compluter DOESN'T mean EVERYONE ELSE has it, and it DOESN'T mean you can try to encourage people to BUY MORE COMPUTERS OR BUY MORE SMARTPHONES SO YOU CAN EARN MORE MONEY. Because NOT EVERYONE can AFFORD IT. Sure you always have those who supports you and supports this change no matter what, with their arguments. What's next, paying for your email service? I don't want to be rude or anything I just feel we deserve that feature back, YOU DON'T HAVE TO MAKE MONEY OFF EVERYTHING Microsoft. You can afford to return it, you have BILLIONS OF DOLLARS, MOST PEOPLE DON'T EVEN HAVE 1 THOUSAND AND CAN'T EVEN AFFORD TO PAY THEIR BILLS. Please start to CARE about people rather than ENCOURAGING THEM TO SPEND MORE MONEY, NOT EVERYONE HAVE MUCH MONEY. WE ONLY HAVE ONE COMPUTER HERE... THAT'S ALL WE CAN AFFORD!!!!
As a family with a communal PC as well as a couple of laptops we'd all like to go back to the simple click and go system with the last four users on the sign in page.
It can't be beyond the capabilities of Microsoft to offer both options. Can it?
Bad move. Please bring it back....
Just one more vote against the recent changes.....
Because I have yet to see a valid reason for removing “remember me” option (simple ‘remember my email address’ would have been good) for one user per device. Forgetfulness is not an issue where “keep me sign in” option is, at least on my part. Hotmail is not the only product I use requiring Live ID credentials.
Even though on my own device I’m the single user, adapting to these unexpected changes would not be as dramatic, should I continue to stay with it. But I can understand (see) the difficulty theses changes have brought about for households with one device, single Windows user account and multiple Hotmail accounts. How changing the way these users use Windows (start using multiple Windows user accounts) as a solution to simplified the process “sign-in” to their email accounts, may not be feasible for everyone’s household situation.
@ Zwanzer, yes it can be all about trust…
Typical of microsoft look at all the complaints and not one reply from Eric
Loooks like about 98% of respondants to his post dont like the change
But I bet in their arrogance they dont change it back
I am now telling people my new G mail account email address.
At least with that I only have to enter a password not my whole email address and password
Not much fun for someone who is not that fast at typing like me
"...in other cases this will encourage you to link IDs. If you are having issues getting this to work please let me know and we’ll investigate."
I am one of many people for whom the Link IDs function will not work. When clicking the Link IDs option we see an error: "Sorry, this service isn't available right now. If you've linked any IDs, they'll still be linked when the service is restored." This occurs across browsers. The Windows Live ID support forum is no help; note: deleting cookies doesn't work. I've searched extensively for a solution, posted/commented on the forum repeatedly and tried many fixes to no avail.
I am unhappy about the loss of the sign in assistant and think you should reinstate it as a choice for users. However, linking ids may work for me - that is, if it would function. I have not been able to link any ids - ever. I would appreciate your looking into this issue for those of us experiencing it.
@ samlowry
Exactly the same problem with Linked IDs here, I get the same error message.
This is a much better design. Well done. Dont listen to all the whiners.
@ Gmotagi: the new design suck. Give us back the old design!!
What a rubbish justification for the removal of such a useful feature.
The workarounds are not really viable alternatives.
A really badly handled 'upgrade', where was the notification that the feature was to be removed.
This really just highlights the arrogance of Microsoft.
The rate this thread is going all 2% of the Hotmail community that use this feature will have posted soon.
Gmotagi that's pretty selfish of you to say I think. We don't all think the sign is much better. I in fact, think it's way worse and wish they could change it back to what it was. The explanation is long and misleading... it says nothing but "like this new feature". It's ridiculous that they don't give the option to choose the old or the new login... many people only have one computer, and the new solution they did is useless. The old one worked, where you could save emails on the sign-in page. And to type the password to login. We don't whine, we miss the useful feature (multiple emails on the sign-in page) that separated hotmail from the others.
I guess I'm also one of the "minority" 2% - although I doubt the true number of people not happy with the recent change is this low. Removing the ability to remember usernames is such a major step backwards for certain groups of users. No, it's not a case of aversion to change. We have lost a simple to use, convenient and time saving feature! No its NOT ACCEPTABLE having to choose to be always signed in to avoid typing both username AND password.
Why is it that the Windows 7 main User Account functionality uses a single button/click to select the user to login as?? Isn't this just the feature that is being removed from Windows Live (aka Sign-in Assistant/Sign-in Control). Think how backward this would be to have to manually force all Windows users to also type in a long string for their username each time they logged into their PCs. Sound familiar?
Microsoft, you had a "competitive advantage" and a compelling reason why so many of us with a common family PC should continue to use Windows Live/Hotmail instead of say for example Gmail.
When you have a shared home PC, and linking accounts together is NOT an option to maintain some sort of independence, the recent change has been so damned annoying. Having to type in your entire username (including @...) and passwords every time you want to login to check your mail is becoming a pain in the neck. We do have multiple PCs but it's not a mine and yours situation. Four of us share all PCs and use any that happens to be free. What's so hard about allowing users the choice - like so many others have been asking for? It's not a case of aversion to change. This is such a step backwards in user friendliness! Truly sounds like a one size fits all approach and to push along a change for other reasons. Yes I've just spent hours reading through all the various comments - including the ONE reply from Eric Doerr. The explanations given regarding pushing this change onto us don't wash with me, and I believe there are other unsaid reasons why this change is being imposed.
This is the first time I've been moved to place a comment on forums such as this. I've also been a very long term hotmail account user. Really not impressed this time Microsoft. Please bring back some acceptable functionality!!
Looks like the people complaining here have never used Facebook. My husband and I occassionally share home PC where we re-enter username and password each time. However, Facebook works fantistic on my personal laptop (I've set it as my home page). Open browser and I directly see my news feed.
I liked approach Windows Live has taken. Hotmail bookmark now takes me to my inbox - which is fantastic.
PLEASE DO NOT LISTEN TO THESE 2% USERS and bring this feature back.
Hate it, Hate it, Hate it.
My wife & I use the same computer and she is visually impaired (800:20). For her to just locate the login box and then the password box is an unbelieveable challenge (yes the screen is magnified 600% - but unless you live it, you don't know how difficult navigating a desktop is). So every single time she or I wish to access hotmail... fuggagetaboutit. Login once, login twice and continue logging in over and over.
Paying $40 for the two of us is just not worth it. We are going to have to find a different webmail service... one that empahasizes the "service" part of the bargain.
@marysimons
If you like it the way AND ONLY WAY it is NOW provided then you are lucky. All the majority of the people want is to be able to have a choice.
@Microsoft
Please provide some ability to configure this. Sure have the current way as the default if you want! Just provide a way for some people to configure it in a similar way to how it used to work. That's all we are asking for. CONFIGURATION!!! It's not really that hard to please each "group" of users!!
@marysimons:
Why would you be against Microsoft bringing back the features they recently removed (i.e., "remember me" and management of multiple accounts) if those features were made optional???
In that way, you could choose not to use those features, while the 2% (which is about SIX MILLION CUSTOMERS - a non-trivial population size) could choose to use the features.
Bringing back the removed features, and making them optional is a win-win .... so why would you be opposed to that????
Well, its always been optional so not sure what Mary is talking about. The 2% thing is just something that Microsoft made up. Sometime's one had to go to additional trouble to make the sign in assistant work. But it was with Messenger I think so most people probably have it on their computers. But that was another Microsoft decision.
But, wow its so hard to make it stop, like maybe to try uninstall it or disable under add on's. Yeah, that would make it difficult to not use the sign-in assistant. Must more simple to stare at blank page to fill it all in again, or fix it so if one forgets to sign out anyone can go straight to the inbox. That's secure. At least with Yahoo I can let it save the sign in name without password.
Microsoft is a crazy acting corporation.
Please change it back =( Think about us with only one computer... the old login worked perfectly!!!!!!! So why did you decide to remove the feature to save more than one e-mail address on the login page? Who got that idea? Well no matter what arguments you have, I hope you listen to us who wants the old login page... the login page where you could save multiple e-mail addresses. I saw you posted in the comments to "explain" it further. Well that didn't work on me, may you please stop this? It's horrible that you force a change on us... who made your success on your services? Us users, yes your customers. We want the user-friendly login again. We want an option to choose between the good old login with the mutliple e-mails, and those who wants the new one can use the new one =(
Please change it back =( Think about us with only one computer... the old login worked perfectly!!!!!!! So why did you decide to remove the feature to save more than one e-mail address on the login page? Who got that idea? Well no matter what arguments you have, I hope you listen to us who wants the old login page... the login page where you could save multiple e-mail addresses. I saw you posted in the comments to "explain" it further. Well that didn't work on me, may you please stop this? It's horrible that you force a change on us... who made your success on your services? Us users, yes your customers. We want the user-friendly login again. We want an option to choose between the good old login with the mutliple e-mails, and those who wants the new one can use the new one alright =(
@MarySimons
Well Mary, you really proved a point(!) i was making earlier when you mentioned that you go on your PERSONAL laptop and log directly into Facebook (as you have set it as your homepage). The point i was making earlier is that it seems as though Microsoft/Windows Live has designed this new sign-in page to force every single person in every single household to purchase their own computer/personal laptop so the change will be convenient for them. Who cares about the financially strapped households that can only afford to have one computer??? Oh yeah, i forgot...we have the option of setting up multiple-user-Windows accounts. Then the person who is ADMINISTRATOR cannot have the option to monitor or clean up needless out-of-date files or folders to free up disc space.
Also, with regard to your comments, It sounds exciting that you can bookmark Hotmail and go directly in your inbox. Again i assume you are on your own PERSONAL laptop and not the one you sometimes share with your husband. I agree with helpishard...this option has always been available and wasn't rocket science to figure out. Maybe its just an example of the so-called "98%" of confused users who didn't know that you could choose BOTH the "remember me" and "remember my password" tiles in the "good old days" of 2 weeks ago when customer convenience was a priority for Microsoft .
What i would like is a STATEMENT from Microsoft/Windows Live saying that they have absolutely no intention of ever reverting back to those "good old days" with the sign-in assistant and the "remember me" tile. This way we can all get confirmation that our opinions don't matter. What do you think langware? sound like a plan?
We are all waiting.......
So this is why it doesn't work anymore, Microsoft? Do you know what democrazy is? Please look at all the comments/feedback you asked for (you wrote "Keep the feedback coming."). We are not joking, we want the old login back or at least a two-way choice: Old Login or New Login is that so hard to understand? Because I read your one reply, and all you do is try to explain the same excuses. You don't care about your users who DOESN'T like the change? Is that hard to understand... to change it back please? What you did is to make a perfect solution just as useless as the other ones, for those who need to share only one computer. I really don't see your passion in democracy here... I dare you to post a POLL on the sign-in page... a poll asking if people miss the old login or wants to stay with the new one. You will be surprised to see that at least 90% wants the OLD login back as soon as possible. I dare you to post a poll as soon as you can... do you dare? Or is all you care about those who PAYS MORE MONEY to you???? Because we feel useless since you don't listen to us and not all of us are billionaires who can just go and buy something new right away. I see on the Windows Live forums you're thanking those who supports this and tries to look sad for the ones missing the OLD login? Yes many people likes the new login, BUT DON'T you dare telling me that we who DOESN'T like this is non-existent. We will always stand behind the OLD choice. And sorry if my English is not well written. I am not English, but I did my best to explain my frustration. Now please return what your users had, that you stole from us. Don't betray us like this please. Please bring it back. I feel sad... and I still have hope you will listen. Like LISTEN so you can bring the old login page back.
So yes, i vote AGAINST this change. Please change it back to what it was. Please.
@jennydjld:
Yes, I agree with you ....
Eric Doerr (Group Program Manager - Windows Live ID), speaking on behalf of Microsoft, ended his blog with this: "Keep the feedback coming."
Later, he posted a comment that opened with this: "Thanks for all the feedback today on this. I really appreciate you all taking the time to share your thoughts on this subject."
Microsoft specifically asked for feedback, and customers have provided that feedback ... both here in this blog, and on the Windows Live Solution Center.
We have shared our thoughts ... and the overwhelming majority of the feedback asks for Microsoft to restore the lost features.
Now, the question has become .... what will Microsoft do with our feedback? Will they do the right thing and restore the features that have been removed from the Sign-On page (possibly making some/all of those features optional) ... or will they just ignore the feedback that they specifically asked for?
Microsoft's own analysis indicates that 2% of Hotmail's customers (six million accounts) used the features that were removed.
SIX MILLION CUSTOMERS may not be a significant number to Microsoft, but I'm sure that other email services would just love to get six million new users.
Microsoft: please have the courtesy of posting here and telling us of your intentions. Are you going to restore the lost features that helped set Hotmail apart from its competitors (and if so, when), or should six million of us (who used the missing features and are disappointed in the way in which this issue has been handled) look elsewhere for our email services?
The favor of a reply is requested.
You can set up 5 LINKED ACCOUNTS which is much easier to change user. Once you log in with an account you'll be able to click on your name and at the bottom of the drop down should be the e-mails you linked without the need to sign in via password.
account.live.com/ManageLinks.aspx <--to set it up.
My family previously used up to 4 hotmail accounts on the computer screen and could sign in (or stay signed in) with id and password...I liked using this feature and now I can no longer do so....Is there a way that we could keep our (4 members in my family use the same computer) sign in with id and password option for signing in or staying signed in? It worked great for my family. I don't like the "new better" linking process of opening up other family members emails as this method offers no option of privacy. I would greatly appreciate it if Microsoft would reinstate this option.
It worked great!....why change a good thing?
Kaumy2
I liked the box to remember the email address as I like to check my emails on the move. Plus It's better for me in a household of mutiple users to secure my email by using a password everytime in case I end up leaving my email open for someone to aceess. I liked the extra security of entering the password every time.
Now I have to waste time entering the email address every time as well as the password, can't work out how that makes my life easier. Just another Big Brother move. Please put back the REMEMBER ME box.
@ArcEngel,
i think you have missed the point...we all know we can link our accounts...i personally wouldn't because i have one account for business and one for work and i don't want them mixing together in my inbox...they are considered separate entities. It is much more easier for me to keep them separate that way. But to each his own...its nice to have the option for links for those that want it.
The point we are making is: we want the separate email address for separate USERS to be displayed on the sign-in page like they did before.
I'm sure you don't want to link your personal email with other people who may use your computer and allowing them access to your account...i certainly wouldn't want to link my email addresses with the other 5 people in this household...
Its me again...i just had another comment about the old design that apparently was too confusing for people...If people needed clarification and change to understand how to use it, why didn't you try replacing the "remember me" option with the phrase "REMEMBER MY EMAIL ADDRESS ONLY" and then have another tile that says "REMEMBER MY PASSWORD AS WELL" ????? A simple addition of a few letters/words might have avoided the confusion...how much more clearer could you get????
I agree with you.
Eric Doerr stated that one of the reasons that features used by SIX MILLION customers were removed was: "We got consistent reports from customers who were confused by the design. Not understanding which checkbox did what ...".
Hmmm ... rather than make changes that would clarify the design, Microsoft just removed the features.
And what's really amazing is that they expect us to actually believe that excuse!
Meanwhile, we are still waiting for a meaningful reply from Microsoft as to whether or not they intend to take any action on the feedback they asked for .... and we provided.
@ langware
It is not the first time that they remove features just like that.
I think that they couldn't care less whether or not we believe their "dubious explanation".
Anyway, the decision they made is very painfull for the members of our association because :
- We all have our ID for our association activities
- We have our private ID for private e-mailing with friends, family and alike
- Most of us have also an ID for participayion in fora like Microsoft Answers, Windows Live Solution Center, etc
That makes 3 IDs and switching between them has become as cumbersome as with others like Google.
But OK they decided to step down to the lower Google level, and we decided unanimously to step out of Live and to step into Google. Google at least did not betray us so far.
yet another thing that i thought of and i know langware that you already mentioned this and will agree with me...Eric Doerr also happened to mention that customer confusion was a significant factor...he wrote: "We got consistent reports from customers who were confused by the design. Not understanding which checkbox did what and as a result accidentally leaving account tiles at an internet cafe or a friend’s house were common complaints."
Maybe Eric can explain why "keeping me signed in" is a more secure option...what if you are "at an internet cafe or friend's house" and you happen to forget to sign out and change that setting to "forget you"? Yikes, that would make all your email CONTENT (not just your address) accessible to everyone in that location! i think those same people who forgot using the "good old days' way" will forget again in this new design. Agree????
I've had my Hotmail account for 13 years and have always raved about it to anyone who would listen. You've been innovative, available where ever I go, and amazingly helpful when my account got hacked once, BUT you goofed big time on this one, imho, simply by not telling us what you were doing. Having wasted considerable time over trying to find out what happened to the sign-in page on Hotmail and worrying that I'd been hacked, or my computer security system was messing with me, I'm more than just a little bit peeved that you guys didn't post in big red letters something like "Welcome to our newly designed sign-in page!" when you introduced it, rather than just sticking it out there and making us guess what happened.
Any chance we could have the option of using one of the two sign-in pages? I prefered the old one. It worked better for me and my family. Is it possible that we Hotmail users could have the option of using one or the other?
I totally agree ... Microsoft's suggesting that we use the "Keep me signed-in" option as a replacement for the "remember me" feature only opens up a potential security exposure ... especially for anyone who uses a public computer, or anyone who shares a single computer.
In addition, based on tests I did last week, it appears that if one uses the "keep me signed-in" option, forgets to sign out, and attempts to sign on from a different computer .... there is no warning given ... such as "you are already signed on". No safety check!!! The customer is not given any indication that they are already signed on from another computer.
The Windows Live Solution Center is already full of complaints from customers whose accounts were accessed/hijacked by someone else ... and now Microsoft is suggesting that the SIX MILLION customers who used the features just removed should now use "keep me signed-in" as a replacement for "remember me".
It is clear from statements made by Microsoft that they are assuming one user per computer ... and while that may be true of the folks in Redmond, in general that assumption is false.
Very bad, please give us the option to switch back.
Hey have you ever heard of feedback? What's the point in asking for feedback if you only include your lovers? What about us who wants the old login page back? You expect us to buy smartphones? Because this is not user-friendly for us with one computer. And what is your explanation if someone chooses “Keep me signed in” and forgets to sign out? At home it is bad enough but at airports, internet cafes, jobs, schools and other public computer. Now please change it back to what is was, if you care about user-friendliness and the security of your customers...
ERIC DOERR --- are you listening to all the comments and frustrations about the sign-in problems from your many ‘devoted’ users of Hotmail posted on << Windows Blog - Comment and Trackbacks >> or turning a deaf ear? If you are listening, then I suggest you address this issue URGENTLY and respond by re-instating the original sign-in page. You obviously made a serious mistake in removing a much loved feature just because you came up with some silly idea that a simple sign-in page was preferable. You were WRONG. At least 6 million Hotmail users (by your own admission) think exactly the same.
The new sign-in page is no longer user-friendly for those with multiple email accounts. It’s now cumbersome and certainly does NOT solve any security issue. It’s actually now created far more risky security than before.
People have been writing on your blog page about this for at least two weeks and there appears to be no response from you whatsoever. Perhaps you’re too busy thinking up some other hair-brain change that nobody wants. Have the decency to issue a written reply to their justified concerns.
PLEASE --- re-instate the old sign-in page NOW. The new one serves no purpose except in alienating your customers.
p.s. I’ve just had a thought - if 94% of your users thought that Folders were very confusing, would you remove that facility and have all emails left in one big folder called “Everything”? No chance of not knowing which folder to look in to find that elusive email - it’ll be there in “Everything”!!!
Of course in reality that would be absolutely stupid - rather like the idea of removing the facility of Multiple Email Sign-in. The old sign-in worked well - PUT IT BACK.
i just tried the "keep me signed in" option for the heck of it and GUESS WHAT? i then signed out and a few minutes later...clicked on the Hotmail icon again...and my address showed up in the Windows Live ID space. The password area was blank which was a relief but ERIC DOERR: I thought you said "Not understanding which checkbox did what and as a result accidentally leaving account tiles at an internet cafe or a friend’s house were common complaints". Sorry to break it to you but EVEN WHEN YOU SIGN OUT you are leaving your ACCOUNT ADDRESS TILE for the next person to see...hopefully you are at home and not at these public computers or internet cafes where a SPAM artist is collecting these valuable credentials.
To followup on the non-functional ID Linking problem, here's what I've been told by the Windows Live support tech on the forum:
"I apologize for any inconvenience this may cause you but the Linked ID feature is now discontinued in Windows Live."
YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING! First you take away the primary useful ability to choose between which accounts we'd like to sign into, then you remove our ability to link them!!??? So each account must now be managed and used completely separately via the web. Linking IDs was not ideal, but this is nuts. The only alternative I see is to use a mail client to manage mulitple accounts, but that is fraught with security problems.
With all the talk of moving to online services and "cloud" computing, I'd think the wise course would be to give users (customers) more options and control over their web-based computing, not less. Do you really want to lose further market share by pushing people away?
@ jennydjld
“and my address showed up in the Windows Live ID space.” “The password area was blank which a relief was”
I’ve seen the same there’s another way it will appear this way too while in Hotmail. Just closing your browser instead of signing out it won’t happen. And yes it will stay that way until you sign-in again. I’m using https and closing the browser is a practice I do for ALL secured sites and some that are not.
Apologies for the delay in getting back to this post and responding to more of the comments. A couple quick updates...
First, I am definitely listening and following this blog and what's going on in the forums. Please be confident that the comments are not falling on deaf ears - even if I am not always able to immediately respond. We're working to clear out some of the accidental misinformation on the forums and get the people pointed to the right info.
Second, we've taken the feedback and we’re looking at some updates to help solve some of the problems mentioned here. Stay tuned for more details in the next few days.
Thanks for the feedback.
I hope you will reconsider...
BPOS requires that I have multiple windows live accounts to manage my various accounts. Using separate windows accounts to manage each one is unreasonable.
I used to be able to at least have the user names remembered so I could pick them from the drop down and sign in. Now I have to look up the correct ID on paper... so much for our digital lifestyle.
Could we please have at least the ability to save ID's without passwords again... even if you just give those of us who can understand it a registry hack to put them back in?
I fear many people are using the "fixes" for this issue on other sites and blogs right now when it's not really broken. Some of these sites look like an attempt to get malware installed on a machine.
Hopefully Hotmail will reconsider and return Remember Me option.....Also I second the experiences of others in not being notified that this was a planned deletion...I "blamed" the wife and then the kids for screwing up our hotmail signin page because suddenly, without notice, when I went to use it, it was gone!...then spent hours googling and binging trying to bring it back. Little did I know at the time, the screw up was Microsoft's.
Thanks for your post.
You stated: "... we’re looking at some updates to help solve some of the problems mentioned here."
I'm sure what you mean by "some of the problems", but I'm sure you would agree that the two most significant customer problems/requirements mentioned here (and in the WLSC) that need to be addressed are:
1. Customers need the Sign-on page to remember their email address (i.e., the old "remember me" feature) ... so that if a customer opts to use this feature, they do not have to re-enter their email address each time they sign-on (and they are not forced to select an option to remain signed-in ... in order to have the sign-on page just remember their email address).
2. Customers need the ability to manage multiple independent accounts from the Sign-on page. Linking Live IDs from one account and/or switching windows accounts is not an efficient alternative to this feature.
The old version of the Sign-on page provided these two functions ... we are merely asking for these functions to be restored. The UI might be different, but hopefully these underlying functions will be restored.
Thanks for listening!
As one of the people supporting Windows Live services through the forums I have to say it was a quite frustrating experience that we were troubleshooting people's issues with the sign in assistant to only find out after several days that it had been taken down. I really hope that in the future changes that have such a big impact are announced earlier so we can keep giving the high level of support we all want.
Why fix, what isn't broke! PLEASE delete, the update you did. OR at least give us the option. I liked the old version.
I am not very computer literate in the first place, and I'm sure not a typist! Please bring back the old version of the hotmail sign-in!! I liked it when I only had to put my password. My family also has email accounts. We only had to choose our account and put in the password. Change it back!
@ WL Pascal S
Thanks for giving insight to the other side of the fence, most users would appreciate this. Major changes always bring large influx of users questions and when Support fails to provide appropriate answer. Users opinion is not in the least favorable towards those who are trying to do the best they can.
I surly hope so when Eric stated “we'll work harder to be transparent about our work in the future.” ....for both Support and Users.
Change it back.
I support CaptainSky, sharks, Swanzer comments.
"I recognize that some of you are frustrated with the change and I am truly sorry for that. I can also assure you that there is no secret hidden agenda :-) - we’re just doing our best to build stuff to solve your problems and make the products better and faster. " How much more lies are you gonna tell? We want the OLD login. You're not solving any of our problems, WE DON'T ALL HAVE OUR OWN COMPUTERS AND SMARTPHONES AND MOBILE PHONES LIKE YOU ERIC DOERR. AND IT'S NOT BETTER AND FASTER. STOP LYING AND BRING THE GOD OLD FEATURES BACK PLEASE.
What are words if you don't really mean them? If you really mean what you say, please quit lying. Bring back the old login page. Or make it optional. If you and your "support team who really cares" really cares, please do as your customers wish, make it optional. Instead of wasting your time being fake and writing more lies that you care so much. But in reality you only care about those who supports you, and ignore us who doesn't want this change. Please change that.
I have been watching the Live Solution Center pages in 2 other languages (Dutch and French).
There are tons of users complaining as well and they do not know what's happening.
The MS support people give them a link to this (English) blog for more information but they do not understand English.
Have you any idea what you are doing to your customers ?
Have you ever heard about customer binding ?
Do you know what the word "respect" means ?
MS should really be ashamed !
This is really NOT DONE !
Hey what's your problem? Stop forcing this on us? Many of us don't want this? Change back to the old one please or at least make it optional. Thank you.
Very funny... NO! Please quit this stupid BS joke and change it back!
This is utterly bad. I have my hopes that you will revert the change or make it a choice. I have read many of the comments and people seem to agree with me. This is bad, very bad so please let us have the old sign-in page back.
Mr Doerr,
You can explain this change in any tactful way you want, but it doesn't change the one fact: This is a lousy implementation. The old one was great, this one sucks balls.
Before this crapware came out, I would never even consider using any other IM client (not even Skype), using WLM exclusively and daily. But since WLM2011, I've been forced to rely more and more on Skype, as I've had text/videochat issues with my other contacts who are still in WLM 2009/2010. I'm just giving WLM one last version/iteration - if that doesn't live up to my expectations, I'll give it up altogether.
Loyalty to WLM doesn't count for much if the WLM Dev team just disregards the end-users requirements and requests.
Didn't have the stamina to read through all the comments above, so sorry for possible repeating but here's my tuppence:
I think we are typical family users. Kids, the mrs and me all use the same computer. Each has her/his own email address.
In the past we had the "remember me" button checked, so we only had to write the password to get in the mail. Now, everyone has to write the whole email-address and the password, which gets annoying - especially because my own and the wife's work email resemble the hotmail address enough that typos are common.
Can't use the "keep me signed" option - like I said we all have our individual emails.
Can't add the work email to the hotmail account - the work email settings don't allow this.
So, dropping the "remember me" button robs probably three minutes daily from me, and another two minutes from the rest of the family every day - that's a whole day in a year...
Multiply that with the number of families in the same situation, and concider if it would be worth returning the "remember me" button.
If not, gmail becomes a very tempting option...
Sorry but this is a horrible change. You would never get big without us customers, so bring that feature back.
A horrible change - posted this in the vain hope that customers feedback might actually have some impact... best not hold my breath eh?
I read your explanation, but I still want the previous functionality back. People with long usernames have come to rely on the previous implementation.
As previous posters have mentioned, there are other choices for email out there. I wouldn't want to have to change over to a different provider, but I will if this login situation isn't resolved to my satisfaction.
Perhaps you can come up with a "classic" login mode?
In addition...
It took me over a week of searching to find this forum. There isn't a convenient way to get help with Hotmail. Perhaps that may be why you think that most people are pleased with you recent change. Everyone that I know who uses Hotmail has more than one username, so there are lots of people who are impacted with this change.
Maybe you could add a disclaimer on the Hotmail login page, indicating that "We've changed our look - how do you like it?" and post a link to this blog.
Three days ago, you posted a comment that said ... "we’re looking at some updates to help solve some of the problems mentioned here. Stay tuned for more details in the next few days."
I'm sure you and your team are working hard to address the problems mentioned in this blog (and in the WLSC), and to restore the key features that were removed from the Sign-on Page two weeks ago.
Perhaps you can give us some status ... what problems will you fix, what features will you restore, and in what timeframe can we expect to see this done?
Thanks!
Couldn't agree with langware more. This feature is a security problem for people who have multiple users on one PC. If the people you changed it for had trouble determining which tile to check, wait till they discover that they have left their email account logged in at the public library. Say they are working logged in and the time expires on that computer. The next person on that PC will go into their account. My wife and I share one PC but we really don't want each other editing our mail or deleting items because the email account was left logged on. When my adult children come to visit I can let them use my PC to check their mail and once they sign out they are out. Terrible mistake MS has made. You need to give us an option to remember our user ID. It works for facebook just fine. I don't care if others see my ID, but they should need a password to get to my or their account. You people need to think outside your little "techie world" box and speak to users who don't use all those "cool" features you do. I only want my mail and I want it to be secure.
Hi i would like the Remember Me option to come back, I don't want to be signed in continuously. I don't understand the reason fo this change at all and the explanation makes no sense to me.
This change is affecting my whole family and also my professional life. I own an SMB who is a MS Gold Partner and have multiple Live IDs some associated with my business and some personal. The new logon system is really wasting my valuable time. Please consider undoing these changes.
Also I would like to thanks langware for your support on this matter and the effort you invested.
Alex Z.
Seriously, the explination was a smug one at best, MS decides what is best, their prerogative, then lets the great unwashed find out by discovery, not prior annoucement. Instead of giving an alternative to those who wish to continue with the "remember me" check box, via a specific "Live Assistant" and add-ons manger download, MS decided that what fits them fits all, once again their choice. If there were really a viable option, more than just a few would have already moved to it. After all "You can have any color Ford you want as long as it is black."
I am also extremely dissatisfied with the change. Obviously, the vast majority is against this change. And the same ratio should be applied to all other people not posting to get a picture what percentage of people is against or in favor.
Here is what I think about this change. In this age, companies like Microsoft won't spend money on any changes unless it brings more profits to them. I am sure you all feel today's market's increasing demand and sometimes forcing (new cell phones) for us to be ALWAYS ONLINE. This has a hidden (behind different temptations) purpose to make us spend more money.
I am not even talking about the signs described in Bible regarding End of Days...
Also, most of you have watched the movie Matrix which shows us the idea of being always online, or being part of the matrix...
In this age you can't control anymore how much of your info is being read, recorded, analyzed ... while you are online. Who is reading all the complicated-language fineprints when signing up for a service ? This way you are becoming an easily controllable means of making more profits for the big companies and eventually for people who fund, design and plan all this.
I am sure, Microsoft's plan for this change is that they have already made a decision to disregard this wave of complains, and planned to use time against us (gradually most of us will start living with it, in this fast-paced life). I urge you not to give up, and continue to pursue the resolution of this issue. Remember, it's us what "they" need for their success.
Thanks to everyone taking time to make comments, especially "langware" for persistence and guidance.
I also urge you not to stay "signed in" or "online", generally, in life. Look what's happening with the young generation: they are like zombies signed in to their portable devices, not noticing anything around.
To Microsoft: Please bring back the "remember me" and the old interface. In this high-tech age, the MINIMUM you can do is GIVE US OPTIONS for the way we sign in. This is pretty simple and will satisfy ALL of your users. For the name like Microsoft it would be very shameful if you are not able to do this minimum.
Thanks.
PS: If I may: Read the Bible - Jesus is the only Way, the Truth and the Life...
If you listen, can you please change it back to what it was before this? Thanks.
Hey! Bring the old login with saved emails back please! It really made you unique!
I just received this response from the Windows Live Solution Center regarding my request to bring the "Remember Me" and multiple account features back ...
"The changes with the "Remember Me" and multiple account management features were initialized because of the potential risk with its security set up.
We would consider your concern as a feature request and have you fill out a request form in the link below so we can do an update with similar or identical functions with a more secured platform in our future releases."
On July 12, you stated ... "we’re looking at some updates to help solve some of the problems mentioned here. Stay tuned for more details in the next few days."
While your response was somewhat vague, it did specifically state that Microsoft was looking at updates to solve problems mentioned in this blog .... and the two most frequent problems mentioned in this blog are the "Remember Me" and multiple account features that were recently removed.
On the other hand, the WLSC response is the standard "we'll look into solving your problem in some future release" ... which (based on many of the requests and responses I've seen in the WLSC) means "never".
Are you withdrawing your promise to provide updates that will "solve some of the problems mentioned here", or did the WLSC moderator who responded to me just use the wrong scripted reply?
The recent changes to the Sign-on page affected six million of your customers. It's been five days since your last post. Please have the courtesy of keeping your customers informed (recall that one of the problems associated with the recent changes to the Sign-on page is that customers were not kept informed ... please don't make that same mistake again).
Can we have some status?
@Eric Doerr:
I just received another response from a WLSC moderator:
"We apologize, but there is no solution at this moment. Our Product Group is already aware of this and they are set to provide the fix in the next release. Remember me option on sign in page for Live accounts is no longer available by design with the new release of Hotmail. This ensures a more secure way to sign in, preventing unauthorized access to your Live ID accounts."
Hmmmm .... looks like a corporate decision has been made to just ignore the SIX MILLION customers who were impacted by the loss of the "Remember Me" and the multiple account features. The WLSC moderators are now all posting replies like those above.
But to add insult to injury, the excuse being used is that the "Remember Me" feature was removed because of a security issue .... yet the "Keep me signed-on" option remains ... and I'm sure you will admit that for customers who use a public or a shared computer .... the "Keep me signed-on" option is indeed a security risk.
The security card does not play ... and using it is just another insult to your customers.
Asking us to believe that this problem will be fixed in the next release is also insulting. How often is that promise made and then broken???
Apparently Microsoft is willing to write off SIX MILLION customers!
@Langware
If you have a look at what Windows 8 is going to be, you might understand this decision.
It seems like they want to push us to have multiple windows user accounts on 1 computer (which can … eh... no … WILL be linked to Live-account) so our computers can be better ‘personalized’…
Less of this pathetic security resonse. The keep me signed feature is the least secure option you could imagine, and if people were too confused to untick the remember me box, what makes you think they won't leave themselves signed in. Come on Eric, respond to this security issue and tell us how this is more secure or better in any way, because your argument has been totally demolished by Langware among others. Better still, come back and tell us all "Sorry, we got this one wrong and are going to restore the feature that so many million of you want back." Have you ever heard the phrase " when you are in a deep hole stop digging ".
It is a bit late for me, I am off to gmail now as it is simply better and I don't need to type in a dissertation every time I want to login. I am still pretty annoyed at the redesign and the limp efforts to explain it away. I actually tried to remove IE, but surprise it is so embedded it is impossible to remove. I've frankly had enough of Microsoft, and when my laptop dies, I am going to buy a Mac.
I've been checking out this blog about every other day, reading the countless, OVERWHELMING proportion of comments opposed to this change. Today, with the silence now becoming deafening, I decided to register and post.
Let me start off with this: The explanation behind the change is a typical corporate-PR style of patronizing your clients. String them along with some relatively pleasant sounding nonsense in the hopes that you'll tire them all out and that they'll give up. Eric, if MS would let you be 100% straightforward about the reasons behind this, while people would still be unhappy, at least they wouldn't feel jacked around (the Windows 8 comment a little before mine sounds LIGHT YEARS more plausible than "security," and sounds like a more detalied, straightforward version of yours).
This style of dealing with customers, while too common among those who are falling OUT OF TOUCH with their customers, almost always ends up back-firing. You'll definitely lose their respect, and likely, you'll lose them altogether.
Just say what is going to happen, and what is not going to happen. Or at minimal, give some indication that your higher-ups are limiting you from saying anything. Let your clients make an informed decision about what they want to do with the changes - if they want to stay or go.
Finally, there's just no good reason - no sensible, rational reason (in spite of the numerious "for security" excuses - which really should just stop, because they sound so ridiculous!) that there can't be an option for a "Remember Me" sign-in - even if it's offered on a different pages that users can bookmark. The cat's out of the bag! By that, I mean - contrary to what MS is trying to imply regarding "security" - everyone knows there's no rational reason that can't be done.
Now, Eric, what people need from you is a response that covers all these points, and brings some closure (not more stringing along) to the issues users have brought before you in these comments. The commentary has slowed down, but the waiting and checking back here hasn't. I'm a perfect example. Please, Eric, lay it out for us so that everyone can make an informed decision about the changes. Thank you.
@whenenrome:
Very good post! Thank you.
An excellent suggestion ... for Eric (on behalf of Microsoft) to be completely honest with us customers about the recent changes to the Sign-On Page. However, it would appear that a decision has been made by those over Eric's head, and Eric is left with the unpleasant task of dealing with the consequences. It also appears (at this point) that Eric may have been told not to post any more comments here. His upper management may be hoping that the six million customers (who used the features that have been removed) will eventually give up, stop complaining, and perhaps go elsewhere (Microsoft may feel they can afford to lose six million customers if we would just go away and stop complaining).
RikkiEric may be right ... the changes to the Sign-on Page might be in preparation for Windows 8 and the push to have one device per customer, with each customer having multiple accounts. But the earliest anyone is talking about for a Windows 8 release is Fall 2012, and if history repeats itself, there will be schedule slips ... I would not expect Windows 8 until 2013-2014 (that's just my opinion, I have no inside information .... only the history of Microsoft's schedule slips when coming out with a new OS).
Also, I believe Microsoft's assumption that many/most customers will have one device each is not reasonable. According to this site (en.wikipedia.org/.../Microsoft_Windows) the Net Market Share of Windows XP is 52.41%. Many many customers are using old hardware/software, using public PCs, and sharing their computers at home. They do not fit into Microsoft's assumption of one user per device. They were happily using features that Microsoft recently took away.
It certainly would be nice to get a straightforward and honest answer as to why the features were removed and why they can't be restored. But I don't think that will happen. I think all we'll get is silence (unless/until this issue is picked up by the media).
But we can continue to post .... both in this blog, and (when the comments here are eventually locked to stifle our feedback) in future blogs where the blog's author states how well Microsoft listens to their customer's feedback. We can all provide counter-examples of any statement claiming that Microsoft is being customer focused.
Meanwhile, we wait for a response from Eric .................
I mentioned in a previous comment that we are working on a change. At this point we have a change being validated in testing. Assuming everything goes well, we will be able to roll this change to production in the next couple days.
I'll do a new blog post to share all the details of that change as we roll it out. The cliff's note version is that it is designed to help two scenarios:
- people who share a PC and juggle multiple accounts, but who don't want to use separate Windows accounts
- individuals who use 1 primary account and want their username remembered but not their password
More in the next few days.
- Eric
@whenenrome
@langware -
Thanks for all the posts and the energy you've put into sharing your thoughts on this and other blog posts.
@langware said in response to @whenenrome's post:
>>>>An excellent suggestion ... for Eric (on behalf of Microsoft) to be completely honest with us customers about the recent changes to the Sign-On Page. However, it would appear that a decision has been made by those over Eric's head, and Eric is left with the unpleasant task of dealing with the consequences. It also appears (at this point) that Eric may have been told not to post any more comments here. His upper management may be hoping that the six million customers (who used the features that have been removed) will eventually give up, stop complaining, and perhaps go elsewhere (Microsoft may feel they can afford to lose six million customers if we would just go away and stop complaining). <<<<<
I want to be really clear that there's no conspiracy here. Nobody made a decision "above my head."
The responsibility is mine. The login page changes came from my team and the decision about how to address the feedback is also something we've been working on inside the team.
I *have* been hesitant to blog about the change in response to the feedback until I was SURE it would work. Given the energy on the blog, I didn't want to raise false hopes.
At this point things are looking pretty good so I wanted to give an update (see previous comment). And now I'm actively working on a full blog post to give more context that will go out in sync with the new change.
Eric
If I have posted anything that offended you, please accept my apology. That was not my intention.
My intention was to convey the frustration most likely felt by a good many of the six million customers who were blindsided by this change and were receiving inconsistent responses from the WLSC as to the status and the possibility of restoring the features removed.
I thank you for your recent post and look forward to the roll-out of the change that will address ...
@Eric Doerr
Thanks for your most recent (July 18) update, it is greatly appreciated.
Hi Eric. I will add my thanks for your communication and what appears will be a thoughtful response to our concerns. The loss of my multiple accounts on the Hotmail login page was what initiated my posting here and I am glad you are addressing this issue.
However, you posted about the ability to link multiple hotmail/live account IDs (your intended course of action for people like me). This feature does not work; further, we've been told on the Live ID support forum that Link IDs is no longer available. Is this true? Will you consider reviving it? I thought to try this feature to consolidate access to all my accounts via my primary account. I'd be happy with either:
1. Accessing my linked accounts via the dropdown by my login name (upper right once logged into Hotmail). I think this may have been the way it worked but, again, Link IDs never worked for me.
2. Having a "Linked IDs" section in the left hand folder area.
It would be nice to have a way to consolidate mulitple accounts - though this should be an "opt-in" feature (for many reasons). IMHO, giving people the choice to adopt new features and customize technology to fit their needs makes for happy, loyal customers.
To take this issue further - making Windows OS more mac-like and IE more Chrome-like should be acceptable only if it is possible to selectively customize away these "improvements" (the removal of useful, accepted features). This is why, for example, I've created a quick launch area in an XP-like taskbar in Windows 7 and refused to adopt IE9 (which is a shame since it improves compliance over IE8). If I liked/wanted mac or chrome, I'd use them.
Please don't make Hotmail more gmail-like by removing useful features (like folders) or forcing a thread-like structure on us. Horrors! Note: allowing "arrange by conversation" but not making it mandatory (or even the default) is an example of doing it the right way.
Thanks again for hearing us.
Thanks Eric.
Let's hope you get it as good and as simple as it used to be.
Personally i can't see how people used to get confused with it all when we had options to either save our login in details (tick box) and passwords if that's what they wanted.
I wouldn't like to see them making purchases and banking etc etc online if they get confused using email logins.
Thanks again,
Jon.
Thanks Eric for the update. Good to know that giving feedback is worthwhile.
Eric Doerr:
"...- people who share a PC and juggle multiple accounts, but who don't want to use separate Windows accounts
- individuals who use 1 primary account and want their username remembered but not their password..."
So that means the usertiles will be back I hope? People who share one PC should also be able to make their username remembered, but not their password (also optional). Like in the old login?
So that means the usertiles will be back I hope? People who share one PC should also be able to make their username remembered, but not their password (also optional). Like in the old login? If you're going to do something else and disappoint us with one PC on share AGAIN, then I hope you will AT LEAST mention it before you roll it out.
Hello, I don't like the new login either. Please change it back asap.
Please revert this change. Enough of this BS. I have used hotmail for years so don't tell me what to like and what I don't need, I know that. Please make this optional because we don't all want this.
Over 24 hours after you posted this status ...
"At this point we have a change being validated in testing. Assuming everything goes well, we will be able to roll this change to production in the next couple days."
... the WLSC moderators are still not aware .... they continue to use generic replies when responding to complaints about the recent changes to the Sign-on page such as ...
"... we appreciate your suggestion and we will treat this as a feature request for possible future releases."
"We have removed the "Remember Me" option and the multiple account sign in support platform from our Windows Live sign in page."
Shouldn't the WLSC be providing their customers with more current status ... that a fix to restore two specific features will be rolled out in the next couple days? Throughout this entire episode, the WLSC has not been very useful. Are there any plans to improve the WLSC's usefulness?
i'm back...been away for a week...hoping that this matter would be resolved....had to take a break from it...was just getting too agitated!! i just wanted to thank Langware for keeping up with the issue and to thank everyone for continuing to comment...i am also encouraged by your latest response(s) Eric and anxiously await the arrival of your full blog post...
I echo jennydjld comments above. I too are waiting for Eric's update(s).
@langware
I can only hope those users in the forum I provided the link to this Blog, continue to return here for news and haven’t given up….
I created an account just to protest this idiotic move the Window Live/ Hotmail team is pulling. This is the most ridiculous idea the Hotmail/ Live in a short while. This is basically making backwards. How on earth can people with 5 or more personal email addresses are supposed to manage their accounts in a fast and efficient way?
I personally have seven (7) different PERSONAL email addresses that I have to log-in to on a daily basis and now this task is a lot more time consuming. Entering 7 email addresses and 7 complex passwords is now a chore and someone needs to fix this bone headed move. I’m guessing now live assistant is no longer a valid option.
If such a system is needed, for whatever reason, there should be a way for live.com to store/remember an email address only, without saving the password -- you know similar to how Gmail works. I hope Google fix Gmail pretty soon so I can give Microsoft the middle finger.
Also, I don’t understand how this is good for Hotmail/live mail and not for Office 365 which still allow ‘remember me’ and ‘keep me signed in.’
The morons that Microsoft hire to make these silly decisions should but fired and replaced with people who are more technically aware with what is going on. This is why Microsoft is failing in the consumer market, except for Xbox. Their market research suck big time -- Zune and Windows phone -- because no one is taking the time to look as what is better for consumers. THIS IS BULLSHIT.
I have no axe to grind, but the changes are very invconvient for a house hold with multiple users. We have 3 computers and it's such a waste of time logging in with an e-mail address many times each day. Although I've spent hours on how to work a round the changes, I am still frustrated with the new process. Unfortunately I don't even comprehend the "separate windows account" senerio. I spent a little time trying to set-up another account for my wife, but gave up due my own confusion (How do you set up a separate acct?). Some of us are apparently pretty stupid, and your explainations need reach our level. Thanks for "listening".
A couple days ago I posted a comment that:
I wanted to give a quick update on our progress.
We had a change coded and in testing early this week and it was looking really good... and then we ran into a couple issues. The new change is something that will work across modern browsers (not just IE) and we ran into some issues getting consistent behavior. To workaround these issues we need to change our approach and that is going to delay this change for a bit. I don't have an exact ETA - I hope only a few days but we need to verify.
I wanted to be extra transparent given that I know some of you are anxiously awaiting this. I will keep you posted every couple days, and hope to be able to roll this change out shortly.
THANK YOU for your transparency.
Of course your customers will be disappointed at the delay, but your openness (as to the current status and situation) is exactly what we've been asking for.
Please find a way to get this new status to the WLSC's moderators ... so they can provide current information to those customers who look to the WLSC for help.
Thanks again!!!
Thanks Eric!
Eric, since you seem to be the one to go to I'd like to throw out my suggestion as well...
How about making it just that much easier to sign in by not requiring we enter "@hotmail.com" at the end of hotmail addresses? I understand there are multiple domains, ie live.com, msn.com, ect and even companies can use the hotmail service for their business email, but considering this is hotmail.com that we're logging into and the majority of addresses are most likely @hotmail.com, I think it would be smart treat usernames entered without an @domain.com as @hotmail.com addresses. I know an older version of the login screen used to do this with javascript by completing a username with @hotmail.com if it was not entered.
I must be a 2% er - used the 'remember me' a lot since we have multiple users in household
Downright nasty doing it this way each day
Any chance of option to either have or have not the 'remember me' button?
To add to the suggestion made by sweetjessica ..... in order to allow users to just enter their ID and not domain when signing on, perhaps customers could use a specific URL that matches the domain of their email account when signing on.
For example .... customers with a hotmail.com account would use www.hotmail.com to sign-on. Customers with a live.com account would use www.live.com to sign on. Then the servers that host the corresponding URL could insert the proper domain name (if a domain name is not specified by the customer).
I realize my suggestion might require DNS changes to route sign-on requests differently based on the domain name used in the URL, and thus might not be practical. It's just a suggestion. I'm sure there are many other ways to solve this problem (i.e., using other parameters in the sign-on URL). Point being that a solution should be found so that (in most cases) customers would not have to type their domain when signing on ... which would be a definite improvement in user friendliness.
Friday afternoon update.
We found a good solution to the problems that we encountered this week. We are working hard on the solution (including having team members here this weekend). The solution is more complicated than our previous change, this means that we will need to do a full deployment, which we will include with our next scheduled maintenance release (which luckily is starting on Monday). Full deployments can take a little while - so we are looking at a few weeks to have this rolled out 100% across the world.
We'll keep you posted as we go.
@sweetjessica
Good suggestion to suggest a domain if the user leaves it blank. Thanks for reaching out!
Eric, as a PM your lack of deployment information, lack of communications across the board and incredible lack of empathy with the very people who use your services is astounding. Yes, I understand why this decision was made, for future tools and services.
What I and millions of others fail to see is the logic where I do not get a choice. Give me and my family the option to have this behaviour BACK the way it used to be. It should be MY choice, not your dictatorship. I call FAIL to you and your team of programming kiddies.
See that share price Eric? See how it hasn't moved in a decade? YOU are part of the reason for that.
Thanks for the update.
"...we will include with our next scheduled maintenance release (which luckily is starting on Monday). Full deployments can take a little while - so we are looking at a few weeks to have this rolled out 100% across the world."
Prior to the full rollout, can you please provide some notice/documentation of the new features ... so that customers are not again surprised by changes to the Sign-on Page .... perhaps a "what's coming" link on the Sign-on page that describes the new features and how to use them?
I completely second @sweetjessica thought which is : "......How about .................. with @hotmail.com if it was not entered."
I think this is a brilliant suggestion and even I had given this feedback on Hotmail feedback page.
@ langware: as far as your addition to @sweetjessica thought is concerned, I think that would make the whole process of signing in more complicated (as there would me multiple login pages one for live.com another for hotmail.com and so on.
I would vote for a single sign on page rather than multiple domains ( best eg. is Gmail). As majority of customers use hotmail.com domain, my suggestion is just to do away with the need of typing @hotmail.com each time I login but if my ID is @live.com (or for that matter any other domain also like @msn.com etc.) then user should type that domain. This would make whole process more simple and people wont have to remember different domains as suggested by you.
@Eric Doerr hopefully you live up to your surname (tho I'm sure its not pronouced that way) and we do see my suggestion in the next rollout or so!.. but at any rate, it's just nice to have a place to give these suggestions!
Also @Eric can you tell us anything about the Link IDs? What's going on with that?
@trulyindian I agree with you that @langware's idea would complicate things more.. lets keep things simple.
I'm commenting again after monitoring this blog page for a while.
I would like to express my THANKS that you do seem to be listening to the various comments being made. I look forward to seeing the changes you are about to roll out.
RE: Automatically appending the @hotmail.com when a user fails to add the full domain to their Login ID.
I still hope that the multiple clickable tiles (if previously used and authorised to be remembered) feature is returned in some form. This was so simple and convenient. It also matches the Windows 7 (multi-)account login page functionality. This feature would seem to render the typing of username, with/without domain, not really so relevant for most using private PCs/hardware, but I agree would be useful for those using public access hardware.
Although it is widely recognised that other domains such as @live.com are being used, I would like to point out (mainly to the others commenting here) that automatically adding the domain @hotmail.com may not be so convenient. This is because the domains used are also country specific. There are a lot more different domains than has been suggested by the previous postings. For those in the USA please spare a thought for those living in other parts of the world.
If I try to create a new hotmail account I can only choose one with @hotmail.co.nz and the same will be true for many other "country specific" hotmail accounts.
-> If the sign-on page can detect and append a country specific domain then I would suggest that the SAME LOGIC gets applied WHEN A USER DOES NOT PROVIDE A DOMAIN as part of their Login ID. It would be an improvement over a simple hardcoding of "@hotmail.com".
[This won't work for me since I already have a @hotmail.com domain account but as I mentioned above I'm hoping I can click on my ID "tile" so won't need to type anything but my password. I choose not to be auto-logged in by my own choice. If I do have to type my ID I'd expect that typing the full ID with domain would permit me to login with @hotmail.com even though the default would be resolved to be @hotmail.co.nz.]
@Really Annoyed:
Regarding Microsoft's use of a default domain domain on the Sign-on Page, you made a very good point that most of us overlooked: many different (country specific) domains are used for Hotmail accounts. This obviously complicates the the problem for Microsoft ... no matter what default domain they choose to insert, some set of customers will not be happy with the choice.
Once Microsoft restores the Sign-on features to remember the customer's full ID (with domain name) and the ability to manage multiple independent accounts/tiles on the Sign-on Page, then perhaps inserting a default domain name will become less critical (because customers can elect to have their full ID remembered).
You guys are looking into things way too much.. adding the @hotmail.com domain or any country domain for that matter is only a shortcut to make things easier, it's not the end of the world.. if it doesn't work for you, then type your full domain.
As I stated before, this was not an original idea of mine.. it was, in fact, a feature that was already in place on a previous version of hotmail some years ago. They figured it out before and I'm sure Eric and his team will find the best solution for it (again), if they decide to put it in place.
I fully agree with @sweetjessica and others that appending a default domain to an ID when logging in (**IF** one had not been specified in an attempt to resolve the correct account) is a GOOD thing to do. It's certainly better than failing for all in these situations. A nice little feature to add especially under the current "type everything" login page we have right now.
I guess I was simply trying to point out that it really needed to be a little more complex solution than adding a simplistic @hotmail.com (particularly for non-USA users); and more importantly (as @langware also noted), it's going to return to being a fairly minor feature and bypassed by most users when the "remember my username" and/or "multi-account tiles" features are restored in some form.
I agree with Really Annoyed ... its the multi-account tiles or at the very least the "remember my username" option that needs to be restored!
I have been thinking of switching to gmail. This change makes my decision easy. This was a bad idea. I have the choice of entering my user name and password over and over again or staying logged in. I don't like either choice.
IS VERY STUPED THE NEW DESIGN.
I have 5 accounts and every time, i must disconnect and connect to the other, to look my emails.
WHAT IS THIS???
Why i must pay because some people was forgeting to do the right thing so the computer not storage password.
My nephew is 10 years old and never done that mistake.
WHAT I CAN SAY..............
I'll have to respectfully disagree with SweetJessica - clearly a case where "sweet" does not include "altruistic" within its intended meaning. As one of those "unfortunate" people with an msn.com suffix on his email addresses, I wouldn't be helped by her idea. I saw the added comment that such an idea is "better than nothing." Actually, for me, it isn't: It's the SAME as nothing. (By the way, I didn't get the memo that said if you don't have hotmail.com at the end, then you don't count.) And in terms of the greater good, for everyone, it's not "good enough," either. I'm not even sure why it was brought up other than a veiled way to tell people like me "pipe down, Sally, I don't care about the problem as much as you do."
That said, I want to thank you, Eric - because you HAVE conveyed that you care about the effect the change has had on your users. Thank you for taking responsibility for it openly, because I - and evidently many others - really did start to wonder if it was something mandated from above your team. From what I gather from your comments, not to mention the countless responses from your users, the "remember me" log-in is simply a feature that's popularity was grossly under-estimated!
I, just like everyone else I'm sure, am very interested to see what's happening with modifications you're about to deploy. But in the mean time, as someone suggested above, would you mind telling us the nature of the improvements your team made? What exactly is it and what can we expect to see?
Thanks again, Eric...
~ Roman
P.S. - A big thank you to Langware for keeping focus on this. As I said before, the comments have slowed down... but clearly the interest in regaining the "remember me" functionality and purpose will always remain. And just like I have, certainly countless others are still checking back often for updates.
Yes, I keep checking back here. Most of the other threads have been locked anyway. I stopped using Hotmail but will return if the remember me option is put back, or at least something that makes more sense than what they did. No way I'll type in entire addresses now after being able to do it so easy before. I wonder if I could get a refund for Hotmail plus.
Oh, and I'll never believe the 2% use statement and also most won't have the time to chase down this blog. Its amazing too me that this team thought taking the remember me option off, and doing away with the sign in assistant that kept a list of emails was a good idea.
Something new, or at least that I have never before noticed, appeared tonight at the top of my inbox after signing in: "Manage Hotmail more easily. You can send and receive messages from multiple hotmail addresses without having to log in and out. Learn more..."
I checked that out and saw that it was just linking other addresses with your current inbox.
I'm not sure if that's the "deployment" we're talking about. I hope it's not - because if it is, we're really missing the point. Please let me be wrong... and please clarify what the deployment actually is.
@whenenrome thanks for the public bashing.. seriously wtf? All I did was give an idea.. I never said screw off to anyone who doesn't have an @hotmail.com address. And btw, if you read all my comments you would've saw "...original idea of mine.. it was, in fact, a feature that was already in place on a previous version of hotmail..." and eric's reply with "Good suggestion to suggest a domain if the user leaves it blank. Thanks for reaching out!"
So when in rome, users with @hotmail.com addresses may be getting a shortcut, ones without will probably have to enter their full addresses... sorry.. now pipe down!
Jessica, you're not saying or conveying anything different than exactly what I said... except that you believe disagreeing with you and pointing out that your suggestion (yes, I know it was something hotmail had previously - but you still suggested it) excludes many hotmail users is somehow "bashing" you. Then you deny that you intended to say "screw off" (and those were your words, not mine) to anyone without a hotmail address - but basically conclude your post by giving a "sorry" for anyone in that circumstance. It's the same message, and I'm sure you've heard the phrase, "just saying 'sorry' doesn't make it better."
I read all your comments before I posted and, yes, I know Eric thought your suggestion was nice. We're still allowed to disagree with an idea even if Eric thinks it's great... and I'm not saying your suggestion isn't good for something. But I AM disagreeing that it's a viable "solution" to any of the problems being discussed here, and am saying that it shouldn't be considered as such.
@ really annoyed (in response to post on july 23) :
....Although it is......resolved to be @hotmail.co.nz.]---> You are also missing one point here. I am giving eg. yahoo also has country specific domains like .com, .co.uk., .co.in etc. now if you try to login into yahoo without typing any of these country specific domains then u would still be able to sign in without any problem. Again, yahoo has some special domains like ymail.com, rocketmail.com etc. (similar to msn.com or live.com in case of hotmail). Now if you have ID containing these special domains, you would be required to type full ID (including @ymail.com domain).
Now here is the point I (and hope so sweetjessica also) was trying to make, when yahoo can log you in without typing country specific domain then why cant MS do so. If you have @msn.com or any any other special ID then it is a case similar to yahoo special domains which require full typing, then where is the problem in country specific domains
I agree that people also use @live.com(including myself) or @msn.com domain but still you can yourself find people who use hotmail domain (be it .com or any other country specific) are way way more than people using other domains. So our suggestion is in favour of those mass of people at least they should be benefitted by this as typing domain again & again in my opinion is useless.
Addition to above post : I request WINDOWS LIVE TEAM to add this feature in addition to "remember me " option.
@ whenenrome (in response to post on july 25) : If you will not be benefitted by an idea or feature does not mean that you should oppose that idea or necessarily disagree with it. We have to see benefit of majority and not for only ourselves. I have never used "remember me" in my life (even when I have five hotmail IDs) nor I am going to use it in future still I am openly supporting the addition of "remember me " option on this forum. If I have not used that does not mean others sould not also use that.
It is not my intention to oppose or offend you so DONT TAKE THIS COMMENT AS OFFENSIVE.
@trulyindian - The idea seemed to be presented as a solution to the problems (specifically the "remember me" option) being discussed throughout the posts on this page. If that is the proposed solution, I say it's not enough - and I think it's absolutely okay for me (and anyone) to express that.
It's interesting that you take my view as being one that lacks altruism. That's exactly how I perceived the idea that anyone without a hotmail.com address would be left twisting in the wind on any change... something that a company should never (and I doubt ever would) do to its customers.
Reagarding your disclaimer at the end, thank you but it wasn't necessary. I in turn ask you, please don't assume people are offended just because they may openly disagree with you. Conversations would be pointless and, more importantly, most decisions would be wrong if there weren't disagreements discussed and navigated along the way.
@whenenrome thank you for clearifying your post.. but it did feel like it was pointed towards me and not my suggestion. At the end of my previous post, I was just trying to be funny while returning the "bashing," and I apologize for that. I do appreciate the fact that you can and are disagreeing and I do think you have that right to do so, but there may not be a perfect solution to these issues that will work for everyone.
@trulyindian thank you for defending my honor!.. my hero!.. that does indeed sum up my thoughts on the auto assume @hotmail.com issue.
@whenenrome : As per my opinion the idea did not seem to be presented as a solution to " remember me" option problem as you had perceived. Had that been the case @langware would not have added another idea to that thought and I also had written that I had given this feedback before this post made by @sweetjessica and mind you I had no intention to get the " remember me" option removed at the time of that feedback (nor I support it even now). This option was suggested in addition to this " remember me" option. And as far as my disclaimer was concerned, it was a just a way to convey that dont take it personally.
I am presenting you a situation to explain idea behind that thought -----> Suppose " remember me" is there and you have three IDs with @hotmail.com domain. Now when you use your PC you have all those IDs saved in that because of " remember me" option. It is good till now. But would you ever use any other PC at any other place. What in that situation. You will have to type the whole IDs again. Also Eric has suggested that they by their telemetry know that only 2% customers use " remember me" option. Now I say, take this figure as 10% (just for eg.). Remaining customers = 90%. Now again assume the customers with special domains (please refer my previous posts for this term "special domain") 30% which would be so at the most. Customers left with hotmail domain who do not use " remember me" option =60%. Dont you think these 60% people should be benefitted by adding "auto assume" feature? This suggestion was based on this idea and not proposed as solution to " remember me" option. Hope there is no confusion now!!
@sweetjessica : you are welcome dear! I thought you had a valid point and thats why I supported you. Hope they work on it soon!!
Interesting discussion about implementation of a default domain on the Sign-on Page. Except for one comment, I've refrained from adding to the discussion. I would like to see Microsoft solve this problem, and I think they could do so (if enough resources were applied to the problem).
Again, I'd love to see this problem solved, but I'm skeptical that Microsoft will do so. Remember, it's been almost a month since the "remember me" and manage multiple accounts features were removed ... and we are still waiting for these useful features (which previously existed) to be restored.
Customers have posted many suggestions for Hotmail improvement in the Windows Live Solution Center. Some have been implemented, many others have not ... some of the simplest suggestions have been ignored ... such as the request for an option to enable/disable and set the time-out interval for the Save Draft feature. With two lines of script, I have been able to set the timeout interval ... yet after almost two years, Microsoft has not put such an option into Hotmail.
In addition, there are many known bugs in Hotmail, that Microsoft has been aware of (in some cases for years) and although many customers have posted requests in the Windows Live Solution Center asking for these bugs to be fixed, many (not all) of the reported bugs remain unsolved.
Here is one recent example ... if you are using any browser other than IE, right click the empty checkbox to the left of any message in your inbox. In the past, a context menu would open with choices such as: Rely, Reply All, Forward, Mark as read/unread, Delete, Junk, Move, View Message Source. Now, with other browsers besides IE, no such context menu opens. With browsers other than IE, hovering ones mouse pointer over the "from" entry in ones inbox no longer results in a menu opening with information about the hovered-over sender. With browsers other than IE, dragging and dropping a message from ones inbox to another folder no longer works. My guess is that these problems are all associated with the same reported, but unresolved bug.
Sorry for the long post. My point is this .... there are many known bugs in Hotmail that still exist; customers have reported them and are waiting for fixes. There are valuable features that have been removed and (after a month) we are still waiting for these features to be restored. It would be nice if Microsoft would implement a "default domain" feature, but based on past history .... such a new feature might be a long time coming from Microsoft (would love to be proven wrong here).
I am not suggesting we stop asking ... by all means we should continue to provide our feedback and ask for new and useful features. But (given Microsoft's track record), you'll have to excuse my skepticism about seeing fixes and new features in a timely manner. Microsoft needs to become more in-touch with their Windows Live customers .... and isolating our feedback behind the moderators at the Windows Live Solution Center is (IMHO) a step in the wrong direction. To Eric's credit, keeping this thread open for comments, and (hopefully in the very near future) his team's response to our feedback, has been a breath of fresh air.
Love the feedback. I really can't wait for a solution from Eric.
@Eric, thanks for listening.
@langware perhaps they are not bugs.. perhaps MS wants you to use IE!
@langware : your skepticism is right, I think. You have rightly pointed out many times through comments (in this as well as posts) about incompetency of WLSC moderators. As far as implemantation of suggestion are concerned, I would say Microsoft lacks innovation. They generally follow others. I recently read in a blog that Gmail has added a new feature to view content of zip files and then download required files out of that zip. Now that is called innovation. I dont know why MS lacks in innovating such things. They were behind in online viewing of Docs (i.e. after Gmail). After so many years, they showed one innovation i.e. sweep feature etc. Also, we can view in inbox many files in Gmail ( approx 15 types incl PDF) but hotmail is still limited to office web apps and some images format. They focus on speed and only speed. Yeah, that is right but it should not be so at the ignorance of other innovations.Their updation cycle is very slow unlike constant innovations by Gmail. Google's services are becoming popular because of constant innovation and updation. No doubt, their services like Gmail, G Apps,G docs are increasing mkt share at lightning speed. I like one thing in hotmail and i.e. its simplicity and ease of use.
@sweetjessica : If that is the case then they are harming both IE as well as hotmail. It is good that they want us to use IE but it does not mean that they should ignore other browsers. Nobody would ever like to swtich to IE just because hotmail works in it.
@trulyindian oh I totally agree with you and I don't think that is the case with MS.. I think you guys nailed it on the head.. I was only making a joke!
I am feeling annoyed again. I very much appreciate Eric's comments, however using Hotmail is really a pain since the change and a fix is too long coming. Just give us a choice on the login page to use the old interface. It's not that hard. Give us a link to the old login page, set a cookie to make it the default and be done with it. And fix linked IDs while you're at it!
Note - warning! Lengthy post - sorry in advance! :-)
This morning, I created, modified settings, and linked (where appropriate) new Gmail accounts for my partner and I, to start migrating from our hotmail / msn suffix ones... We each have an email address for personal, and for business / bills / etc. - so a total of four. With no answers to our questions about describing the "fixes" we can expect (or if the new "linking" promo mentioned in my previous post was precisely what Eric was talking about - which wouldn't be sufficient), we kind of felt it's time to prepare a move over.
We brough Droid phones, as well, earlier this year... and already had one gmail address each to support those (though we had never used those emails). And we were disappointed to find that MS has done little to nothing in terms of creating applications for use on the Droid platform. There's no Windows Live Calendar app, nor does it sync with the resident calendar on Droid phones. The reason why I'm getting into this is that it just seems like MS wants to keep you on their platform, or they just don't plain want you... and the truth is, in terms of mobile, Windows phone isn't exactly gaining popularity.
I started as a kid with an AOL address, like a lot of people did, in the mid-late 1990s. When I got DSL through Verizon in 2003, I acquired the MSN addresses through what was then "MSN Premium" internet suite. Within a few of years, of course, I just accessed it all through Windows Live Hotmail via IE. I liked that it kept convenient features, I liked that I could setup my own homepage... It evolved with our needs, and that worked. But throughout that time, there actually were changes - including removal of some features - that did make things less appealing. One of the distinctions Windows Live / Hotmail had was the sign-in. It was personalized, and it worked for us. That distinction was removed, and nobody knows how (or even if) it's being reconceived.
But I go back to the fact that these changes even happened in the first place. Some of what I read still makes no sense at all. The idea that an overwhelming amount of people were "confused" by it? Where is that outcry? I've never seen it, and to this moment, can't find it. But somehow MS's telemetery conveyed this to them. Sorry, I just can't wrap my mind around that. I'm a little more inclined to think, as others have stated here, that we have a company who just isn't on the right track when it comes to its users... too much thinking in a bubble that has floated too far away from its customers. When I take what happened here, and also look at MS's lack of interest in compatibility with other platforms (as I mentioned for the Droid / mobile phone situation), it only supports that feeling of "you will like what we offer." It's as if that when we don't like it, we sort of don't belong.
The situation has becomes so negative, that it even drove some users to a "survival of the fittest" perspective right here: You had people effectively wanting to push hotmail.com addresses to the the front of the line, and accept any improvements you had to offer for THEM... even if it meant that the rest wouldn't get the same benefit. I mean, that's a pretty good sign that you're starving your users for solutions when they're suggesting to others to "accept a sacrifice for the rest of us." It's actually kind of funny, when you think about it: the level of hoopla that an email sign-on issue has caused. Yet it's precisely what you guys set in motion, and here is exactly where we've ended up.
I suppose I want a web-mail platform that's going to grow WITH me and not AWAY from me in terms of features and conveniences. No, gmail, doesn't have a "remember me" sign-in tile feature, either. But it has several other interesting features, and is compatible with mine and a gazillion other people's mobile devices - and regarding log-in, I don't have to type in any suffix to my email user name at all, and I can link my accounts there... still easier than what I have to do with hotmail. Maybe a different webmail client is what's good for us, and this is the little push we needed to leave our comfort zone.
My apologies for this being so lengthy. I just wanted the developers to fully understand the importance of the decisions they make for their users. And I understand the complexities of that responsbility - that if you try to please everyone, you probably won't please anyone. But I feel like what I've said here is likely reflective, in part or in whole, of what's on the minds of users negatively affected by the entire process of these changes - certainly of the many users who posted here. Thank you for taking the time to read.
It's funny... one of the previous blog posts I saw a couple of weeks ago, by Craddock, read "MS Thanks you for a great 15 years..." and I thought to myself, "gee, that sounds a lot like a goodbye!" Ironically, that's what it appears to be.
Good post .... I think your comments reflect how many of us customers feel. And yes, our frustrations were certainly evident in the recent discussion on a default domain name for sign-on.
Microsoft certainly can do a much better job at partnering with us customers, but that means agreeing to accept our feedback and taking action on it. A little over a year ago,I was asked to participate in early release testing of Hotmail Wave 4. I provided feedback and identified many bugs and areas for improvement. A small number of my suggestions were eventually acted on, but the large majority of my feedback (including the identification of blatant bugs in Hotmail's user interface) have still (after more than a year) not been fixed. This lack of followup does not provide incentive to participate in future Early Release Testing (but perhaps that is the desired effect).
If you'd like more information on the bugs I reported, see this blog:
windowsteamblog.com/.../new-app-like-outlook-features-added-to-hotmail.aspx
...scroll down through the comments and look mine dated June 26, 2011 ... it lists some of the bugs I reported as far back as June 2010 (note that item #5 in my comment has since been fixed).
Will you be providing another end-of-the-week update for us on Friday? Did the full deployment of the new solution start with last Monday's maintenance schedule? I have not seen posts from anyone who claims to have seen the new solution implemented when they sign-on.
Two requests:
1. Please provide documentation on the new solution (such as a link on the sign-on page that takes one to a page that describes the new solution,what it does, how to use it, etc, etc). This need not (and should not) wait until full deployment has begun/completed. The documentation should be made available well before the first server is updated.
2. It's been a month since this problem began. If full deployment will not be completed by the end of next week, please consider restoring the old features while you continue developing/testing/deploying the new solution. Doing so will take pressure off your team, and allow you to fully test the new solution while customers are again able to access features they've missed for the past month.
.......The situation has becomes so negative......and here is exactly where we've ended up.......
OMG, I cant believe this is the same guy who was first on this blogpost to tlak about altruism. I completely DISAGREE.
Even though he has not named but everybody can see whom he is referring to in :""survival of the fittest" perspective right here:"
I dont know how many times I have written this " that default domain name was just another feature request". He seems to have wrong perception of everything and does not want to understand what others are saying and then talks about altruism. He seems to have a preconcieved notion and does not want to see beyond that. NOBODY has suggested to "accept a sacrifice for the rest of us." but dont know how he got that point. May be he is too impatient.
I also comment on others post and others also do on mine but has never seen anybody with such wrong perception about others opinion.
@Eric ... A week since your last post. Surely we are due an update!
@TrulyIndian - Please hold the OMGs, as you're overreacting. You totally focused on one part (a relatively small part) of my previous post , as if it were my entire point. It was just an example I used, of a situation I was complicit in. Anyone can tell from my comments that I wasn't debating the discussion you're referring to (trust me, I've moved on from that) - but pointing out a byproduct of the events.
By the way, I was not "first on this blog to talk about altruism." If you scroll up, you will find that my initial post was on July 18th, which was a detailed commentary about the overall problems we're discussing here: the loss on the log-in, and the way it was mishandled - and had nothing to do with what you're talking about.
I'm not sure if your intent was to discredit me, debate something old (that for me is now a moot point), or try to distract others from the point of my coments. I obviously somehow rubbed you the wrong way before, and I'm sorry about that. So can we now let that go, please?
What I said in my most recent post is just me honestly speaking my mind, and happens to be pretty consistent with what several dozens of others have already posted here... and their thoughts reflect countless other users who aren't aware of this opportunity to express. I hope the conversation can put this distraction aside and resume that direction.
@Langware - Thank you for the comments... I'm glad you understand what I mean about the "disconnect" between MS and its users. I checked out the link you posted... I use my email reading pane differently, so I was never affected by those bugs. But it's surprising to find out that they're happening, and have been for so long.
You're better informed than I (and obviously far more technically skilled) about how things are running - and how they *should* run - in terms of the services, upgrades and their implementations. Everything you've posted has been helpful for me, as I'm sure it has for a lot of people here.
I fully agree with your statements.
They explain exactly why I have been drifting away from Microsoft during the last couple of years.
I have been a fervent Microsoft "lover" since Windows 1, and I am slowly but surely becoming completely uninterrested in what they provide us with nowadays.
I do not trust them anymore because they bring lovely features which they discontinue once they became indispensable in our workflow (I have many examples of these kind of dicontinued features in Office, Windows, IE and Live).
@whenenrome: I had let that go long before your that post. My intention was neither to discredit you or distract people from your comments (who I am to do so, I dont work for MS, I just use their services as you do). I had no ill feelings about you. But then you posted something which I did not like and I Had to reply in a way which I myself consider to be rude. I had read your post three times before I posted mine (trust me, really). I dont know how could you say that i was putting hotmail.com address to the front of the line as a remedy being "survival for the fittest" and "sacrifice for others". I never said that it was an alternate (it was an addition, I dont know why could you not get it). I have said in one of my previous posts that " I have never & will not use 'remember me' option, but I still support it." Then you should not have said that "people are pushing hotmail address to the front." If you wont be benefitted by it does not mean that others should also not be. It was purely a feature request and has wrongly been perceived by you (to treat as an alternative). Please bear in mind that no feature is useful for everybody (as this was not for you) but we should not be commenting on it like that you have said.
@trulyindian and @whenenrome
Can you please continue the personal chat between the 2 of you elsewhere ?
It does not add to the purpose of this blog !
Zwanzer, believe me, I happen to be 100% with you on that. Speaking of keeping things on-topic... to anyone who hasn't read it yet, please check out the 9th post above this one... It's lengthy, but it really sums it up for me.
Dear @Eric Dooer... please respond with some good news asap.. these comments could surely use it!
Jess
No this should be optional. Please change it back or make it optional (the CHOICE of using the old login or the new login).
Dislike. If it works don't fix it. Or make it optional. Not mandatory.
@whenenrome – First, I’m sorry that you (and others) have had a poor experience. We don’t get everything right, but we really are trying to build great services for all of our customers. Sometimes we make decisions that turn out to be wrong. We learn, and we try to make things better. That’s what Eric and his team are doing right now on the sign-in page. It’s taking longer than we would have hoped, but they are not ignoring the issue. Balancing the needs of several hundred million users can be tricky sometimes, and I think that’s the main point that Eric makes in his post about balancing simplicity vs. functionality in the sign-in page.
You make a lot of good points in your post, so we really do appreciate the feedback. I did want to address one thing you wrote about Calendar on your Android phone. Hotmail supports Exchange ActiveSync, so it should be possible for you to set up your Android phone to sync with Windows Live Calendar. Details can be found here: windowsteamblog.com/.../hotmail-now-supports-push-email-calendar-and-contacts-with-exchange-activesync.aspx
Also, I wanted to say that my “Hotmail 15 year birthday post” certainly wasn’t intended as a goodbye! Not for me and not for Hotmail. I love Hotmail, and I’ve been working hard to make it better for seven years. I plan to be here for quite a while. I’ve still got a lot to learn, and we’ve still got plenty of ways to get better. I like what you wrote about “the service that grows with you.” I think that’s the right aspiration, and it’s what I want Hotmail to be. Thanks again for the feedback.
I just saw a recent post from a Windows Live staff member:
"It is not possible to receive email from two different Windows Live accounts in the same inbox. "
Is this true? And if so, do you think that ability could be added?
I don't think I've ever seen a web mail - or desktop email - application where you could not receive email from multiple accounts in one inbox. This would be a serious limitation in Windows Live's usefulness.
why don't understand how to give us an option (between old and new). dick craddock, what part of "optional" don't you understand? you say you have a lot to learn, you say you really appreciate feedback and that you are trying to build great services for all customers. well still you don't mention the simplest thing: the good old login page. instead you talk about one of your "new amazing services" like the calendar synch on android phones. oh yea.. you did this for the smartphones users and left is PC users behind... but you can solve it for everyone by making it optional for everyone? no?
@ Dick Craddock
Hi Dick
Are you suddenly replacing Eric in this blog ? What happened to Eric ?
And why are you starting to talk about the calendar ? while this blog is still about the sign-in issue and nothing else !
Are you trying to deviate from the Sign-in issue ? If that is the case, than we consider you off-topic ! Let's stick to the sign-in issue please !
Allow me to propose the following things to you and the rest of whomever at MS :
- Give us the old sign-in feature back immediately and then
- Take your time to come up with an even better solution, but don't try to invent the wheel or the hot water again
- Tech people have to do the thinking, but marketing people have to decide together with the customers which of the tech possibilities has to be choosen - not the opposite way around !)
@Dick Craddock
Thanks for contributing, it is appreciated.
Even though the new changes don't effect me directly (repetitively type full Live ID credentials when required, it's not Hotmail only for me) as much as those who have multiple accounts but indirectly it does. I still do not understand why when a product is build for a wide variety users that it is not taken in to account (better than what I have read here) how any major changes will effect their user base first. People (users/customers) are not just numbers or percentages of a total....
For now I'm waiting and watching to see if whatever changes that maybe, will address all complaints that have been expressed.
On a daily basis patience can be hard to come by....
It's been a busy week and we've made great progress on the change to address some of the issues we've been talking about on this thread. At this point the change has been completely tested and we've completely deployed the backend (invisible part) of our system. Starting Monday we will begin rolling out the front ends. Front end rollouts go in stages and take up to a week (depending on a variety of factors), but you should be able to play with the new changes next week.
We'll post the full details of the changes as a standalone blog post early next week, in sync with when people will see the change.
Thanks for hanging in and being patient with us. This ended up taking longer than I hoped, and I know that for some of you this has been a frustrating experience. I really do regret the inconvenience and am hopeful that you will like the new change.
Eric. Thanks for the update. Will let you know what I think after the roll-out.
Thanks for the update...keeping us informed. It will be interesting to see what *new changes* for “some of the issues” have been addressed, this time around...
Thanks @Eric and @Dick for the updates and comments! Can't wait to see the changes!
@Everyone Else, please don't take it so personal if the changes aren't what you're expecting. As mentioned, it's hard to please millions of users, and I'd say it's probably impossible to get it just right for every one of those users. We should be thankful that MS has provided us with this blog and allows us to comment and connect with the WinLive team.. and I for one don't want to see it go away because of all the negative comments and blame games being said. Suggesting new options or features and commenting about changes that should be made is a great way to show MS what the users want, but some of the comments that have been made were in poor choices of words and those can end up ruining this for everyone.
Sorry to be such a woman on this post and I hope my point was made clearly and everyone understands it. I also want to say this wasn't directed towards just one commenter (as everyone will probably think).. if you go back and read all the posts, you'll see there are plenty of comments that I am talking about.
This is my first comment, I followed this for the last week. The comments here have been healthy, I don't see the need for calling on people to chill out. Microsoft is who should be thankful, which they probably are, that customers take an interest by explaining what they like and dislike. It's their opportunity to learn about customer needs. Without a place to post them, frustrated customers would probably give up. That would be a loss for microsoft...I would not have know which commentators your talking about had you not pointed it out. That wasn't really necessary, and I only saw who they are because of your and one other commentator who agreed with you got into it with them. Because of that, it probably feels obvious to you.....but wouldn't otherwise be obvious to everybody, as you said, who they were, truly because their comments mirror how most people here feel about the login issue. Conversely, I thought their comments were stellar, because the login change is so irritating and baffling. I don't necessarily get from your comments that you are that bothered by the login change, maybe that's why you seem to feel others are over reacting....when it isn't that at all, it's that these people, me one of them, are more affected and more upset by it. I hope people continue to say how they feel, including those feelings that are so-called negative. Just like if you decided to choose a different tv service or mobile carrier, there is nothing wrong with letting a company know their suite of web services is becoming wrong for their needs. It's noot good news but it is good for Microsoft to hear it. I suggest they do it with a little more frequency and not frustrate people into begging for news, but I am pleased to see that the developers are keeping people posted. It's a cautious relief to read that something is being done to solve the login problem. People are naturally anxious to see and learn what that is.
@deanlives thank you for your insight.
I hope the changes microsoft is working on will include the '' REMEMBER MY EMAIL ADDRESS''
old sign in plz
I posted the new update describing the new change. Thanks for all the feedback on this thread, I do want to let you all know that I'll focus my energy reviewing comments there and won't be actively following this comment thread any longer. See windowsteamblog.com/.../an-update-on-the-changes-to-the-hotmail-sign-in-page.aspx.
I think the new change is better than the old change (with no emailaddress remembering). But I still miss the old tiles, like when you click and hold Windowskey+L in Windows 7 you got the the Windows login page on your computer. The tiles shaped squarish and shiny like that.... I miss thone on the hotmail login. Also you could add your favourite picture and color on it to make it personal... I miss that soo much!!