Comments

1. vistaisadog

   
   Posted on: November 27, 2007 at 10:25PM  

   Installed the latest updates. Didn't notice any appreciable difference. Problems we had before remain the same. Our simple timekeeping package, Billquick 2007, still runs poorly and slowly on an AMD Dual Core 5000 with 4 gig of ram. Not near as smooth and as fast as it does under XP SP2 on an old AMD Athelon 3000 with 2 gig.(BIllquick blames Vista) Looking into downgrading to XP even though it will cost us some addtional licenses. Sure impressed with the fact that it works better with X Boxes. If entertainment is the main purpose of Vista, MS should just admit it and deploy a hard core high performance, compatible, OS for businesses. We just don't have th time to keep screwing with this OS.
2. perrybucsdad

   
   Posted on: November 28, 2007 at 3:16PM  

   The sad part Vistaisadog, is that MS won't even let the MSDN members (who paid to have this service) know when they will be getting SP1.  I have some serious performance issues and as the Director of IT for my company, I have to make a recommendation by the end of December as to how we want to go on 250 new laptops that we will be buying.  I'd really like to see the SP1 so I can be fair, but at this stage, I'm almost about ready to make the switch to Ubantu and OpenOffice.
3. Nick White

   
   Posted on: November 28, 2007 at 3:58PM  

   Hey perrybucsdad:  all I'll say is, soon.  I'll be sure to let you know here on the very date it's available.
4. Coz

   
   Posted on: November 29, 2007 at 6:51AM  

   Problem with Girlfriends Laptop, running Vista.  Automatic Update ran during the night and this morning the whole system is SNAFU!!

   Reboots alternate between Safe Start Up and Restore.

   Any backtrack tips?

   Ran System Restore to a date last week but no luck.
5. perrybucsdad

   
   Posted on: November 29, 2007 at 9:00AM  

   Soon might be too late.  I'm glad I paid all that money for our MSDN for nothing.  Ubantu is really looking more promising.
6. bipinp

   
   Posted on: December 04, 2007 at 6:03AM  

   While installing Vista, I have used Nvidia driver thru Floppy drive. and after installation in device manager disk is shown as SATA.

   But After Windows Update it again change to SCSI Drive.

   Is there any problem for using Vista by setting?

   I try to Update the device using WinVista [new driver from nVidia] but i got error the current drivers is latest one.

   also my PC hangs sometimes after installing some programs(like Live Messenger) and all. is this related to above driver problem?

   please reply
7. BobKerns

   
   Posted on: December 15, 2007 at 8:36PM  

   Let me add my voice to the chorus screaming about KB941649.

   How ironic that a "stability update" is itself so unstable that it fails to install on so many systems, while simultaneously destabilizing them.

   It's already been through one revision, without reaching stability. Now another Patch Tuesday has come and gone, and it's blocking additional updates!

   Microsoft HAS to do better than this. This is giving new meaning to the old term MS-DOS -- Microsoft Denial-Of-Service, AKA Windows Update.

   Could I suggest creating a site, and a team, to address issues with updates? That is, one-stop shopping where people post problems, they are investigated, results published?

   People with problems already posted could simply click a button and add to the count for that problem, giving information to the developers about the extent and urgency of the problem.

   From what I've seen, Windows Update is currently the most destabilizing element of Vista. (Probably XP, too). Even worse than drivers, at this point.
8. BobKerns

   
   Posted on: December 17, 2007 at 2:53AM  

   OK, having bitched -- let me share the solution I found. It was MUCH too hard, and I've been at this 37 years. I think it really shows that Windows Update has utterly failed at making the update process easy for end users -- it's even a nightmare for IT professionals.  The root focus is not on empowering the end user.

   Anyway, here's what I posted to the Windows Update site as a "support request" as a way to get the info about the problem into the system. Note that the Windows Update support site, once you find it, is NOTHING like what I suggest above. Not to mention, totally broken if you use Firefox. (I have to assume it's better under IE).

   There was no space in my post to Windows Update (they have a secret character-count limit that kicks in and starts deleting stuff at the end!), but let me say that this Windows Update experience is quite at odds with the experience I have with the Problems and Solutions tool. While that lacks any sort of aids to self-help or community help, it does, in fact, provide a path from problem to solution, which often actually succeeds! (Not as often as I'd like, but it sometimes even succeeds for third-party pieces, which is Really Cool). In fact, the overall emphasis on diagnostic aids in Vista is great, it's just this Windows Update thing that's the fly in the ointment.

   I hope this information helps keepitsimpleengr.

   -----

   [Stooopid widgit committed my response when I selected the OS in the middle of editing -- without my clicking on the button! Perhaps you need to test against Firefox??? The whole UI for this page is spastic, with this text input box changing size, font, and color when move the mouse!!! We'll see what resubmitting does...]

   KB941649 would not install -- repeatedly, and blocked several updates from the current Patch Tuesday as well.

   The problem turned out to be a WMI issue. It was MUCH too obscure to track down. I happen to be good at such things -- consumers are not.

   After a lot of googling the error code -- usually 8007054E -- and getting some hints from experiences people had with updates to SQL Server 2005 -- I downloaded and ran WMIDiag from the Microsoft download site.

   This found a few problems:

   1) A Terminal Services reference to the HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\CSDVersion registry value couldn't be opened. It doesn't exist, I think they mean HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Windows\CurrentVersion\CSDVersion? I created a DWORD, value=0 there, and that error went away.

   2) The 8007054E's were not a catastrophic media failure (the hard drive is fine -- in fact, this started out on another hard drive I graded, which read 100% and is still fine...) They were reported against WMI's ROOT and ROOT\CIMV2.

   More googling, winmgmt /verifyrepository agreed it was corrupt, so I did winmgmt /salvagerepository, and those went away.

   3) Then an additional problem showed up -- complaining about the security descriptor for ROOT/MICROSOFT/SQLSERVER/COMPUTERMANAGEMENT lacking the entry for Everyone. It nicely told me (in a very technical way) what it expected to see there, so I added that, and WMIDIAG pronounced my WMI repository clean.

   Of course, I have a suspicion that the Everyone entry was deliberately removed by some prior security update, and that I've opened up some security hole, but I suspect it would be one requiring local access, and on this system I'm not concerned.

   Once I did that, the updates ran OK -- except for the random unexpected reboot after I logged in the first time. (I'd seen that when I tried to install it before -- it shouldn't let you log in if it's just going to reboot out from under you!!!!)

   I must say, this is all insane.

   1) The error reporting is abysmal. What these obscure codes from the NT header files are doing as the description of update problems is beyond me.

   2) There was NOTHING in UI to point to a WMI problem. Or anywhere in particular.

   3) The link in the Details (if you even know to right-click to get that menu option!!!) in the update history takes you to a help page full of obscure error codes, that provide no assistance, even in the rare case the error code you encountered is actually present!

   4) There should be a link that takes you to a page for issues WITH THAT UPDATE. Where people can provide feedback, statistics on failure rate are shared (so one knows whether it's specific to your system or a common problem), and solutions can be shared.

   The whole windows update user experience is horrible. I understand very well it's a very hard problem, but I don't see anything of substance being done to make it easier for ordinary users (or even power developers) to get from problem to solution. It's not even easy to find this site, and even when you do, it is really not particularly helpful except in a general way, and having a rather broken submission system for submitting support requests.
9. BobKerns

   
   Posted on: December 17, 2007 at 3:07AM  

   Also, Denman430...

   One thing I should mention is that to do the winmgmt /salvagerepository step, I had to manually stop some services which depended on the WMI service. Some people report trying it three times would do the trick, but not for me. It may be the Dell add-on thingy did the trick.

   BTW, the evidence is that my WMI repository had been broken a long time. It really should have been detected and reported automatically a long time before this update came along! (And even fixed!).

   As soon as I fixed it, the LEDs on the side of my laptop (Dell XPS M1710), which froze months ago at one color, and no longer could be changed, started animating again. I suspect I'll be able to apply the BIOS update that wouldn't apply, too; I suspect Dell goes through WMI for both.

   I also didn't have room to mention what the WMI issues were -- they were with Moniker connections and connections in the terminal services piece, and another area I forget (I could dig up the logs if anyone is interested).

   I hope this is helpful. I hope Microsoft can move from Windows Update being an attack that denies access to our systems (e.g. my Win2K box killed by Windows Update) and consumes our time, and more of the delivery channel for solutions that it is meant to be.
10. wanderer_3

    
    Posted on: December 17, 2007 at 4:20PM  

    Let me add my two cents...

    I built my system from scratch and had a clean install of Windows Vista (32-bit) Home Ultimate.

    With an advanced chipset and 2GB RAM, one would think the system should be relatively fast.  However, that would be tinking logically, which apparently doesn't apply to Vista.

    With regard to updates, recently, about 10 updates came down and I clicked to install. After leaving the PC on all day (8 hours), I checked back and the update installer was still trying to create a restore point! So, I stopped the process. i then tried to install one update at a time during shut down. It took close to 8 hours to install one update!  What gives!

    Further, when I manually try to create a restore point the option is unavailable 9and yes, I am running as an administrator).

    My wife, who relatively PC-illiterate, suggested that I go back to XP, since it appears to work better and is more compatible with a wider range of devices. (I have a new Motorola Q smartphone, that although Vista recognizes, refuses to synchronize with the device).

    Long story short, I am sorely dissappointed in the new Vista operating system. There should be an option, (similar to the "click to continue") even if you had to password protect it, that allows full control over the processes and security.

    If you can let me know if the slow update and the mobile devices issues are fixed in SP1, then I may wait.  Otherwise, I guess I revert back to XP, wait for SP3 and a couple of years from now when Vista is stabilized, I'll install it (but not over XP, that'll kill everything).  Vista does not play well with anything; even itself!