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1. chopsnsauce

   
   Posted on: May 10, 2007 at 1:00PM  

   Bah!  The more I use Vista, the more I find stuff I don't like about it.  Read this article and thought I'd give it a go, so went to "start\username\searches" thinking I could add a saved search from there.  WRONG!  You HAVE TO go "start\search\Save Search".  ARGH!

   And network places?  Don't even get me started on THAT!!!

   In terms of intuitive ways to do a task, I think XP is better than Vista.

   Nick, is there any chance some aspects of the GUI (see above) will be reviewed during Vista's life span?
2. Xepol

   
   Posted on: May 10, 2007 at 7:12PM  

   Search in Vista REAKS!  I've tried to use it time and time again, but I inevitably end up opening a command shell(**) and doing a DIR /S /b <mask>  because vista seems to be clinically INCAPABLE of just searching filenames any longer.

   I have ZERO use for search folders because you first have TO SEARCH FOR THE FRIGGIN SAVED SEARCHS!!!!

   Frankly, whoever did the usability testing on this one totally blew it.

   (**) When I open a command shell, I don't use the new "built in" menu option either, because there are MANY situations where it also fails to work correctly.  Just try to use explorer in DETAILS mode - if you have a full directory, you NEVER get a place to shift-right click for the menu option.  I could litterally rant for an HOUR solid about how useless this feature has become.  Sad, because I used it all the time in XP.

   I would say that many of the new features in Vista simply GET IN MY WAY, and frankly, I am not happy about it.  I use vista, but I actively discourage people from getting it unless they have a darn good reason.  After all, aside from a useless search feature, crippled and inconsitant right clicks, folders forget their sort orders CONSTANTLY, drag and drops take forever unless you want to give up thumbnails entirely, tab orders are wonky, driver support is STILL subpar...

   Vista ME indeed.  I would like hope that the first update pack would fix all this, but frankly...

   Maybe the next major OS version...
3. hao

   
   Posted on: May 10, 2007 at 8:00PM  

   Some people don't see the merit of saved search folder, so here's a real life example of how I find it useful:

   I have a lot of music files.  With traditional folder hierarchy I group them by genre, then artist.  But  very often you get special cases such as artists who fits multiple genres.  Of course it would be silly to duplicate artist folders in each genre folder, what you could do is make shortcuts, but it's difficult to manage and update.  With saved search folder, I can now save each genre as a search folder, assuming the mp3 files are all tagged right, it's alot easier.

   To chopsnsauce

   You can save a search to anywhere every time you make a search!  See the "Save Search" option on top of the explorer window after you do a search?  How can it get any more intuitive?

   I am having completely different experience comparing to Xepol.  I found many new features in Vista improves my user experience, especially the new search.  Speed boost aside, it's just alot more powerful in general comparing to the old search.

   With that been said there are certainly stuff need improvement.  

   Folder view/type is a big one.  When create a new folder, it default to "Video and Picture" type, it should be smarter than that.  Also change the view in one folder type changes every other folder with the same type.  Ex: I have two picture folders, I made one view in detail because there are alot pictures in it, the other become view in detail also next time I open a new explorer window, because both use same template, that's very annoying.  Each folder should store it's own specific view, without interfere others.

   And how about support tagging in Vista file system level, tag combined with search is so powerful but alot common files don't support tagging (fancy video and music formats, rar, etc)
4. kdjani

   
   Posted on: May 10, 2007 at 8:27PM  

   Here are some of the things I love about Vista search.

   !) type:

   I  use type:xls to get all excel docs

   type:exe to get all program

   !!) kind:

   A kind can be program or kind:im will search all Instant Messaging conversations. kind:mail will  search for all mail

   !!!) name:

   this operator will search only in the filenames

   I love Vista Search. I took me a day or two. I had to modify the indexed location to include some from the other partition. But since then its been an awesome ride.

   http://www.microsoft.com/windows/desktopsearch/addresources/advanced3.mspx
5. Nick White

   
   Posted on: May 11, 2007 at 1:42AM  

   I've checked with someone who knows more about this than I do and this is his response -

   Chopsnsauce -

   • Search is contextual in Windows Vista and doesn’t do a full PC search everywhere you go.  When you go into start\username\searches, you theoretically could create and save a search folder in that view, however, any search your run from username\searches (and when I say run, I mean you type “Foo” into the Instant Search field in the top right hand corner of the Explorer) is just scoped to the Searches Folder.  You’re not likely to find anything.  Instead, back up a level to start\username, use Instant Search there, and you’ll get results.  From there you can save your Search Folder, and it will automatically save to the right place.

   o You might ask why we didn’t just make every search field search your entire PC.  The reason is because in our usability testing, we found that people found it more intuitive to be able to scope their searches by navigating to a specific folder.  For example, imagine you had a folder name “Projects” which had a whole bunch of work from lots of different projects.  Maybe there’s a child folder named “Contoso” in that Projects folder.  If you know that the document you’re looking for has something to do with Contoso, just navigate to the Contoso folder and run a search.  That’s much faster than searching your entire Projects folder and then having to try and exclude stuff from other folders.  This easy way of floating back and forth between browse and search, is something no one else does, and we think it’s a great working model.

   o That said, are there times when you might want to search your entire PC?  Of course, and that’s why you can use the Start Menu, start\username + Instant Search, or the Search Explorer (Start\Search)

   • When you say network places, are you talking about being able to search network locations, like servers, or are you talking about other PCs?
6. Xepol

   
   Posted on: May 11, 2007 at 6:49AM  

   @Hoa - Saved searches might be useful if:

   a) YOU DIDN'T HAVE TO SEARCH FOR THE BLOODY SAVED SEARCHES!!!!  Getting there should be ONE CLICK!

   b) they weren't as slow the 10th time as the first (indexes help, but if you wanna kill your machine, try indexing 2tb of drive space!)

   c) Tags actually applied to everything instead of a demented hit and miss.

   @kdjani: Howsabout *.xls or *.exe - does the same thing in XP, but is less typing, and actually FINDS unindexed things reliably.  Again, same comment about indexing 2 terebytes of drive space - just watch that machine die!

   @Nick - The saved searches folder might be redemable if it was the root namespace for the Start menu|Search option, so that you could just use the explorer toolbar to select a saved search.  Of course, you still can't edit or refine a saved search, so it would remain pretty unfriendly.

   Yes, Search is "context" sensitive.  Sadly, that context isn't always what one would expect, or it is just plain broken. I gave up after a few too many failed searches in the current folder that just plain failed to find things that were clearly there.  Worse, features like *.abc,*.def,*.ghi  which worked BEAUTIFULLY in XP just utterly fail in Vista. The inability to search for more than 1 thing at a time is a CLEAR step backwards.

   And of course, in XP there was one place to go for search.  In Vista, there are at least 3, and they all act differently.  XP worked smoothly in one interface (unless you clicked the back button once it showed results causing it to go insane) - you could search the local folder or system wide.  Saved searches?  Hit the down arrow.

   Was it as sophisticated as Vista's search?  No - but it WORKED.  

   Frankly, I have a LONG list of features that could, nay SHOULD get torn out of Vista to improve its usability and search is right near the top of that list. (thumbnail generation on drag and drop and inconsistant right click menus on explorer window icons are also top contendors)

   Port the kernel improvements back into the XP and you would have a winner.
7. chopsnsauce

   
   Posted on: May 11, 2007 at 8:47AM  

   @Nick White

   Thanks for the reply.

   I understand the reasons you have given for this, but I still think its counter-intuitive NOT to be able to add a new saved seach from start\username\searches.  

   With regards to the problem of scope of a new saved search, what's wrong with using the same default scope as when you go start\search?  This would seem logical to me!  Oh, and as another poster has mentioned, the ability to amend a saved search would also be good!

   Network Places is an unrelated rant about My Network Places being dumped in favour of Start\Network. If you want to talk about that as well, I'd be delighted! ;)
8. kdjani

   
   Posted on: May 11, 2007 at 12:34PM  

   @Xepol. And all those things you did in XP are also available in Vista! But what you need to understand is that Vista is search centric. In XP search was just a feature.

   1) You can still search in Vista like in XP. *.xls works even today. I just am a big fan of operators. And it is much faster!

   2) Windows Key + F also works. Start Menu + Search also works!

   3) And that is exactly why Vista by defautl does not index each and every location on your machine. You can still  search in unindexed locations also like XP.

   @Xepol. Let me ask you this. Have you tried out vista yet ?
9. ayo

   
   Posted on: May 13, 2007 at 4:15PM  

   Please,my laptop suddenly stopped producimg amy audio sounds after a restart.Searches revealed that the driver for the  High Definition Audio Controller was missing or corrupt.Please how do I solve this problem? It's a Compaq pressario V6000?
10. Nick White

    
    Posted on: May 14, 2007 at 11:59AM  

    Hey ayo:  this blog is nt the best place for you to seek tech support -- I'd suggest you visit the public Windows Vista newsgroups to see if someone can help you with this issue.