Comments

1. rblacher

   
   Posted on: December 13, 2006 at 7:13PM  

   That's an odd thing to offer.

   As a Technet Plus subscriber, I already have the RTM version so I know it fixed a fair number of problems from the RC1 and earlier betas (well, even some critters in 5744).

   I would think the CPP people would REALLY appreciate a copy of the final build, albeit still with a drop-dead date of May 31, 2007.  

   Maybe that's what is offered when folks call?  LOL  That may flood the switchboards. :-}
2. PowerHouse

   
   Posted on: December 13, 2006 at 7:36PM  

   I agree with rblacher.  Most of the problems are fixed in the RTM version, why have a support line then?  Unless they want to give me a key or a download link for the full version.  I would very much appreciate that!  Even a nice discount would be swell, you know, for the holidays.
3. bazanime

   
   Posted on: December 13, 2006 at 8:18PM  

   We can only wish and dream.  I have to say that it s still a welcome thing to have such a means of contact even at this point in the show.
4. newscientist2000

   
   Posted on: December 13, 2006 at 11:09PM  

   I guess Im lucky enough not to have needed to phone support testing RC2, nice to know that its their if I need it though.

   Good thing I speak English!
5. mmacygin

   
   Posted on: December 14, 2006 at 9:37AM  

   Maybe I'm just dense, but I've just spent the last 45 minutes performing circles on the TechNet site trying to find the RTM version of Vista Enterprise.  I just can't seem to nail down the actual location. Can anyone help?
6. rblacher

   
   Posted on: December 14, 2006 at 1:59PM  

   To mmacy:  You probably should have posted your question about Vista availability on Technet to an appropriate newsgroup.  But, I indirecty brought up the subject so:

   On TechNet *Plus* (available by paid subscription), the following versions of Vista are available (all in the same ISO -- what you install depends on which license key you use).

   Windows Vista Business

   Windows Vista Business N

   Windows Vista Home Basic

   Windows Vista Home Basic N

   Windows Vista Home Premium

   Windows Vista Starter

   Windows Vista Ultimate

   Note:  The Enterprise edition is *not* available.  If you want to evaluate Enterprise, activate Ultimate -- the feature set is very similiar.  The real difference is in licensing and activation.

   How'd I do, Nick?  :)
7. Randy Scholes

   
   Posted on: December 14, 2006 at 3:11PM  

   I gotta agree with what some of these people have said... Since i start my training next week to do windows vista tech support, in the past we haven't supported beta software over the phone at all..

   I should just give out the most simple answer for the people who call in and say that they got problems with either there beta 2, RC1 or RC2 builds.. Go out and buy the full version and pretty much alot of your problems your having now will be solved...

   Do you guys thing that we won't get enough phone calls in the first week or something? because i know from doing windows xp tech support in the past we were always in Q with at least around 100+ people and with only a few hrs left before closing time.. An i for one don't feel like working until 6am the next morning and get 4 to 5hrs sleep before going into work the next day and start all over again....

   I'm all for helping people out. But not just with beta software when the full version is out...

   So please try and rethink this before vista hit the store's...

   thxs...
8. Shadyy

   
   Posted on: December 14, 2006 at 11:08PM  

   I would appreciate to get a full copy of Visa, cause we was part of preparing this release to public.
9. hklm

   
   Posted on: December 15, 2006 at 1:48AM  

   This cold be very beneficial, but I doubt it will be, and I'm delighted to explain why.

   The raw number of posts we're helping your customers with  on the newsgroups is ramping up.  When the broader pubic gets into UAC and Vista it will increase due to a number of bugs that did not get fixed when Vista hit excrow/RTM and the celebratory parties.

   I'm not sure how they would distinguish someone who "participated in the CPP" versus anyone else but anything that works to make better Vista users is good for everyone.

   I think MSFT needs to emphasize using Help in Vista, what is reached from helppane.exe typed in the run box or from the start menu>help and support though because 85% of the questions we see on the groups can be answered by it. Also what happened to the link to the MSKBs in Help or do you reach it some way by searching Help and Support I'm not finding--because I don't see a link to the MSKBs on a question (it came up automatically in XP in the "ask options"?

   When they see that they boot up and they don't have explorer and Win RE's Startup Repair does not work much of the time calls will increase.

   When they boot up and see that the control panel has suddenly gone empty and they don't know the workaround and SR and Win RE's startup repair can't fix it they'll be calling.

   My experience in testing what is termed MSFT PSS is that it is a horrendous  experience and an encounter with pure incompetence for a few reasons.

   I mean support on the phone subenterprise that it is and not associated with say an Action Pack or a subscription membership that costs a grand or more like Technet or MSDN or is not a specialized partner support.

   Most people think they are calling MSFT engineers or technicians whatever a technician might be.  They aren't of course.  I'm not suggesting they need to talk to Darrell Gorter about a setup problem. But I am suggesting that they get competent help and that Convergys your perrenial contractor is anything but.

   From the Unitied States, the same country where Redmond Washington is located, any calls I launch for support for a box of Office or XP would go to Convergys Ohio employees outsourced to cities in India.

   I have spent a life time which requires me to often understand people who can't speak English well in very time pressured situations. However, it does not enable me to understand the very broken if not shredded and too limited a vocabulary to most of the people  MSFT profers as "tech support."  I don't think it has any quality control.

   Example: Tell them you can't find your  user profile when you boot to Windows.

   They haven't a clue Nick.

   They tell people to format the box.  They have no idea of the undeletable admin. account or where it is or how to restore a user account.  And here's the point. They aren't Cuisinart supporting my coffee maker.  You'r company MSFT is holding these people out as "support professionals."

   Suppose you went to the doctor with a belly ache and he didn't have a clue what the belly was. That's my perception after many times testing your PSS.

   And here's a fact. If I put my dog at the keyboard he does better.  He isn't going to format the box. That allows someone competent to restore the user account in seconds.

   So this is a good idea by Microsoft but the devil is in the details.

   Jim Allchin also blogged on Win RE the other day.  Jim didn't address something I know he is aware of.  Most of the projected hundreds of millions of Vista customers buying it via retail or OEM preinstalled box won't have access to Win RE.    XP didn't offer OEM access to a repair install for example via OEM "recovery discs" or an OEM partition.

   The same hisotry is repeating itself in Vista.  I would love to see Jim Allchin try to get a list of OEM name partners who are going to put access to Win RE on a disk or partition and I'll bet he comes up empty.  Why don't you put in a request to the OEM VP's office and ask Nick?  He's Scott di Valerio.  Jim Allchin knows him.

   I'm saying that because Microsoft wants to ensure that people buy an OS DVD or CD in XP's case that they make sure the OEM partners dont' send their and your customers one.

   That results in a lot of unsuccessful recovery attempts for people who aren't backed up by images or other means of backup--hopefully less with Vista and Win One Care's  improved backup mechanisms--more robust in Vista.

   The vast majority of OEM sellers of Vista or the so called OEM named partners aren't sending Vista DVDs to access Win RE.  Dell is an exception and they have promised to send Vista OS DVDs--probably with a Dell Logo imprinted on them. See Dell Blog:

   Bloatware, Operating System Discs and Dell Software Support

   http://www.direct2dell.com/one2one/archive/2006/10/17/3132.aspx

   I have an idea.  Jim Allchin blogged he got a call from home two to three weeks ago.  And who did that caller call to help?  Jim Allchin.  

   That's nice tech support if you can get it.

   However, let's do this. Have the members of the Allchin household who need computer help call MSFT PSS which is Convergys in India via your CPP number posted above.  Have Jim call them and pretend he's Jim the newebie and give us a transcript of that conversation.

   I think this will better convey the situation I evoked  better.

   Nick--Call them and get into the skin of Nick the Newbie and see what you hear. Let us know.

   So my suggestion is for MSFT to handpick these people that man the phone and get some competent help for your callers/customers on the other end.  

   Send someone to revamp what Convergys is doing. Cancel them.  Get decent tech support for average home and small business users for the first time in years if you have to train them yourselves, and if you have to get new ones get new quality control people to supervise them from some MSFT campus because they have failed miserably.   Right now it's an F- on an A-F grading scale.

   HKLM
10. rblacher

    
    Posted on: December 15, 2006 at 8:00AM  

    2 clarifications of earlier posts by me:

    (a) I did NOT suggest that all CPP participants should get a free Vista license.  That's crazy and MS would never have another CPP if that became everyone's expectation.

    (b) I did suggest it may make sense to post a new CPP version -- the RTM version of Vista BUT! with the same drop-dead date as before (I think mine was going to die on May 31 at 7:xx pm -- I have no idea why they were SOOOOOO specific -- lol).  Use the "run" command and type "winver" to find the exact time of your execution. :)

    (c) Doing the above would help with the "frankenstein" builds (see recent post on the WGA blog).  All those folks really get is the RTM with the drop-dead date still in.  So, the "crack" is not really a crack anyway. Not sure why MS cares about this other than to signal to the pirates that this is nuclear war this time.  (er, add a smiley there, maybe)

    (d) I *assume* MS' reluctance to release a drop-dead RTM is that the pirates would crack it.  Well, they ain't having much luck with that so far.  The RTM is all over the P2P networks but requires a unique beta key and still, after the crack, dies on June 1, 2007.  If there really is a better crack than that, well, then I understand completely MS' reluctance to post a CPP RTM.  And, the WGA/Activation folks better go back to work before Jan. 30!

    OK, now I've probably been even less clear that what I implied in earlier posts but it's only 8 am here :-)